[GreenKeys] KLINSCHMIT TT-117 WIRING HELP

Wed Dec 6 21:05:21 EST 2017

Could be that too!  It’s just been too long!!!  The lever I think does lock it from transmitting via the keyboard contacts on the right side, allowing only the parallel contacts on the left side of the keyboard to send to the reperf.  There is a solenoid mechanism on the 178/179 reperf that transfers the parallel data from the keyboard to the punch pins of the reperf.  I can remember that much.

Steve G./N4TTY

From: Duncan Brown [mailto:duncanancy at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 8:59 PM
To: Albert Last; N4TTY at ARRL.NET
Cc: 'Green Keys'
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] KLINSCHMIT TT-117 WIRING HELP

I think the way it works is that there is a contact actuated by the keyboard that operates the solenoid each time a key is pressed. The flat lever needs to be in the right position, also (the manual is not too clear and I don't have the unit at home to look at)

I'll try to get the TT-117A circuit diagram & some text scanned tonight or tomorrow AM and send it out.

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 06-Dec-17 18:10, Albert Last wrote:

Humm... okay, Steve. I was thinking that on the first mark bit, the shaft would key the solenoid stopping the keyboard, which would open the spring switch killing further pulses until the next key stroke on keyboard.  The spring switch is located on back side of keyboard. multiple unused sections for possible use my me.

Thanks again,  Al

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 2:21 PM, Steve Garrison  <mailto:steve.n4tty at gmail.com> <steve.n4tty at gmail.com> wrote:

Albert,

The solenoid doesn't go into the loop.  As I remember it, the solenoid was to prevent the keyboard from sending to the loop.

Just how I remember it.  Otherwise the solenoid would try to follow all the mark and space bits which wouldn't be very practical.

Steve G./N4TTY

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Albert Last
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Duncan Brown
Cc: Green Keys
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] KLINSCHMIT TT-117 WIRING HELP

Hi Duncan,

My cover says 117A but as you say, covers can change.... My keyboard has one solenoid and the flat lever. I've started removing parts and following wiring around. Will wait for your scan to further see how close we come. Sadly, your 115v info at 1/4 amp is more current than I was hoping for. I wanted to series solenoid into loop for a reset operation. We'll see.

Thanks for your scan ahead of time.

Al

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:28 AM, Duncan Brown <duncanancy at earthlink.net> wrote:

Al, 

I have the AN/FGC-25 manual that covers your TT-117. But to add to the confusion, there are differences in the keyboard control circuitry between the TT-117 and the TT-117A, including changing reference designators! !  And you cannot always be sure which model you have from the nameplate on the cover, because covers did not always go back onto the correct unit in a maintenance shop!

Does your keyboard have two solenoids (TT-117) or one solenoid and a big flat lever (Keyboard Control Lever) sticking out in the middle top of the keyboard (TT-177A)?  Let me know which model you have and I can scan the schematic for that version.

The short answer is that the keyboard solenoid requires 115VDC at about 1/4 amp (3/4 A fuse) through  a set of contacts on the keyboard somewhere and the Keyboard Control Lever must be in position to allow keyboard contact cams to rotate for serial operation.

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 04-Dec-17 13:31, Albert Last wrote:

Back again. Removed solenoid and found 700 ohms in solenoid in series with 500 ohm fixed resistor switched in series with solenoid. will reinstall solenoid in keyboard and ck ckt.

Question: can I put this series look in series with keyboard and 60 ma loop from HAL ST-6 ?

Al

On Monday, December 4, 2017 9:05 AM, Albert Last  <mailto:al.last at sbcglobal.net> <al.last at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Hi Duncan, Thanks for your input.  I only have the TT-117. So without the Reperf I guess is a major problem. I did remove the keyboard and found that the solenoid that controls the lever to stop the unit from turning is open. Infinite  open. So regardless of reperf or not the coil bad. Oh well....

Thanks all,  Al w6gsq

On Sunday, December 3, 2017 12:21 PM, Duncan Brown  <mailto:duncanancy at earthlink.net> <duncanancy at earthlink.net> wrote:

Al,
The TT-117 was the page printer half of the AN/FGC-25. The other half 
was the TT-178/9: reperf, tape reader and power supply.  Do you have 
both units or just the page printer?

We have an AN/FGC-68 (weather version of the FGC-25) at the AWA Museum 
with a bad power supply and the TT-117 keyboard will not work without 
the power from the reperf unit.

One of the "features" of the AN/FGC-25 was that you could punch tape as 
fast as you could type. There was a special mode for a parallel 
connection from the keyboard to the reperf, instead of normal serial 
connection.  It sounds like that circuitry is what is preventing the 
keyboard from sending serially.

Robert Downs on this list sells manuals and may be able to get you a 
scan of the FGC-25 maintenance manual, TM 11-5815-244-35. (I think I got 
his last paper manual).  I have the maintenance manual at the Museum and 
I can bring it home on Tuesday and scan the schematic.

The operator's & low level maintenance manual for the FGC-25 is TM 
11-5815-244-12 and is available on Google Books.

Have fun & good luck,

Duncan Brown, K2OEQ
USASA  31J30

Antique Wireless Association Museum Asst. Curator, Commercial Equipment
(also Chief TTY operator & repairman)
http://www.antiquewireless.org/

On 03-Dec-17 11:47, Al.Last at sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
> I have been working on my Klienschmit TT-117 tty for the past year. 
> Special thanks to Steve N4TTY for providing me the main drive shaft 
> WITH the gears. I could never have gotten past first base. I now have 
> one remaining problem that some one of you might have knowledge to 
> help me finish this project. My TT-117 is the version that came from a 
> Crypto system.. It has the red light on the front housing; a 1" 
> diameter 18" long cable/connector hanging from left side;  the typing 
> 70 something levers that flip up to remember the key strokes (???); 
> the keyboard rotating disk with a knife lever that stops the rotation 
> once a key stroke occurs (normal knife has two ends - mine has only 
> the start side ). Now the problem....... the unit keeps rotating. It 
> is suppose to stop after it rotates once and wait for the next 
> keyboard selection. There is a solenoid ???? round module directly 
> behind the kyboard that has a flat lever which trips the run/stop on 
> the front right. This lever appears to stop rotation waiting. The two 
> wires from the round module runs to the horizontal sliding red arrow 
> that runs across the faceplate. I DO NOT HAVE ANY INFORMATION on this 
> final problem(s). I don't see any source to activate solenoid?
>
> Sorry for this long email, but after 1 years labor, your input could 
> save me hours of interpurlating.
> Al W6GSQ
>
>
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