[GreenKeys] Secret DC Basement in NYC - Great History

[Doug Alderdice]

Twenty-five cycle electricity was available to commercial customers in 
the Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Western NY State area, and I am assuming the 
Niagara Peninsula area of Ontario, until relatively recently.  I believe 
it was sometime in the early 2000s when the last power plant at Niagara 
Falls still making 25 Hz stopped doing that -- I think it was the Adam 
Beck Station on the Canadian side.  Facilities that still needed it 
installed converters.  There is an old, restored movie theater in North 
Tonawanda, NY, about half way between Buffalo and Niagara Falls, that 
has a converter and their lighting to this day still has the tell-tale 
25 Hz flicker.  I was told that their HVAC system motors were all 25 Hz 
and it was simpler and cheaper to install the converter.

Doug, KA2WFT


On 5/13/2015 8:05 AM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> Was born just outside of Toronto. Although too young, I was told that
> the Hydro as the electric supplier is called made arrangements to change
> all motors to 60 Hz. I was told in our house it was the washing machine,
> clothes driver and 'fridge, It would have been sometime between 1948 and
>   1955.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Hydro
>
> " ... In 1948, HEPCO changed most of its system from 25 Hz to 60 Hz.
> However, the Fort Erie area south of Niagara Falls stayed on the
> remaining 25 Hz generators until 1966, and this area had electricity
> throughout the 1965 Eastern Seaboard Blackout
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_1965>. ..."
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Richard Knoppow
> <1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com <mailto:1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com>> wrote:
>
>          DC power in the NYC area was a remnant of Edison.  His first
>     power systems were DC and they remained until fairly recently.  DC
>     is good for traction motors and some other uses but inferior in
>     other ways.  Many ships had DC power and radio equipment used
>     motor-generators to produce AC   There were some radio sets made for
>     AC and DC.  In a few cases this was to save the cost of a
>     transformer but also to permit them to be used where only DC power
>     was available.  I don't know what cities in addition to NYC had DC
>     power.
>           Note that beside 60Hz AC there was also 50Hz and 25Hz used in
>     the US.  50Hz was quite common but I think 25Hz was not supplied to
>     homes here.  It was in Canada and I remember the flickering lights
>     in Niagra Falls when I was there with my parents many years ago.
>     25Hz was used for traction motors and is still (I believe) in use
>     for the electrified railway of the Pennsylvania RR.  In Los Angeles
>     the city had 60Hz power but Burbank and Glendale had 50 Hz until the
>     1950s.  Stores had to carry electric clocks for both types.  When
>     the local power companies wanted to get on a regional grid they had
>     to adopt 60Hz power.
>
>
>     On 5/12/2015 6:40 PM, Bruce Gentry wrote:
>
>         I have read about ships using 100-120 volts DC for radio equipment,
>         motor generators or dynamotors provided high voltage for the
>         transmitters. Supposedly this was to allow  for easy battery backup.
>         I think the power on Liberty ships was all DC, I don't know about
>         destroyers or escort carriers. The Titanic was DC, the Queen
>         Mary was
>         as well, probably still using some or all of the DC system until the
>         ship was taken out of service.  The utility here in Syracuse
>         provided
>         DC from a central power station until 1953. They had to install
>         hundreds of motor generator sets for elevators and theatrical arc
>         lamps throughout the city, I believe I shut off and tore out
>         the last
>         one  powering an elevator  in the city in the late 1990s.  There are
>         still hundreds of elevators in Syracuse  that use MG sets powered by
>         the AC line for variable voltage control. Because of the strong
>         third
>         harmonics typical single phase computer switching power supplies
>         generate in a 3 phase four wire power system, there are a growing
>         number of buildings or even neighborhoods where modern DC
>         substations
>         are once again becoming common. It is fairly easy to convert three
>         phase AC to DC efficiently in one local substation to operate
>         massive
>         numbers of computers while generating very little third harmonic
>         energy.  A surprising number of computers can be connected to
>         320-380
>         volts DC with only minor  modifications because their switching
>         power
>         supplies already produce that voltage by rectifying and/or doubling
>         the peak power line voltage.
>
>
>               Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
>
>         On 5/12/15 4:53 PM, David Christ wrote:
>
>             Someone else on the list should be able to confirm this, but
>             ships
>             during and prior to WW II and even more recently ran on DC
>             (220 V?).
>             The high voltage for the tubes was provided by motor
>             generator sets.
>             And of course many of us recall the dynamotors used in many
>             mobile
>             two-way radios used by police and taxis.
>
>             David K0LUM
>
>
>             On May 12, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Jim Haynes
>             <jhhaynes at earthlink.net <mailto:jhhaynes at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
>                 If you lived in a DC powered area of a city it was hard
>                 to build a ham
>                 transmitter of any power because you needed a
>                 motor-generator set to
>                 develop the high voltage DC for the amplifier tubes.