[GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC via GreenKeys
greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Tue Mar 3 12:48:00 EST 2015
ok all mine seem to be 20 ma on 33's
In a message dated 3/3/2015 10:41:36 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
lester at veenstras.com writes:
Possibly 20 MA but I certainly have 33s at 60 MA
Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
_lester at veenstras.com_ (mailto:lester at veenstras.com)
US Postal Address:
5 Shrine Club Drive
HC84 Box 89C
Keyser WV 26726
GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
Telephones:
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From: COURYHOUSE at aol.com [mailto:COURYHOUSE at aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:15 AM
To: lester at veenstras.com; kb8tq at n1k.org
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
pushing ASCII though it remember that the ASCII TTYs are 20 mil
loop... ed sharpe
In a message dated 3/3/2015 7:15:56 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
lester at veenstras.com writes:
Bob:
Set and forget it with options, on the board in the form of jumpers or
construction connections for:
Internal 60 ma loop supply
Internal 60 ma loop limiter with external DC supply
Option of build with fixed loop limiting resistor or riostat to set loop
current
Internal loop to KBD loop or KBD loop with own 60 ma supply
Internal loop for printer or printer loop with own 60 ma supply
Split or single loops for KBD / TD / Printer
Simple DB-9 RS-2323 (sort of) interface to user or
USB dongle / TTL interface to user or
USB all bells and dancing options with bi-directional buffering, rate
conversion, code conversion
The final option, (your contribution) should be bade rate and code
conversion configurable by user computer via USB interface in the same way
conventional USB derived comports are configurable, with the addition of a
number of code conversion tables (or ascii pass through) User computer,
talking to USB does not necessarily need to know anything about baud rate
etc at that point. That is handled by USB protocol.
Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
lester at veenstras.com
US Postal Address:
5 Shrine Club Drive
HC84 Box 89C
Keyser WV 26726
GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
Telephones:
Home: +1-304-289-6057
US cell +1-304-790-9192
UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749
Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898
This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp [mailto:kb8tq at n1k.org]
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2015 9:27 PM
To: lester at veenstras.com
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
Hi
So here’s a question:
Is this a “set it and forget it” gizmo?
Do I:
Case A:
1) Look around the shack, only see 60 WPM machines
2) Fiddle the card to do 60 WPM in and out
3) Burry the card deep in a dark corner and forget about it
— or —
Case B:
1) Look around the shack notice 60 wpm 5 level, 100 wpm 6 level (from where
???) and a couple ASR-33’s.
2) Decide they all belong on the same local loop (yikes !!!)
3) Poke buttons on the board every 30 minutes as I switch between machines
My own situation is very much case A, or at least a single speed card /
loop
for each speed.
Do you envision people wanting to do case B?
I’m wondering about things like on the fly baud rate switching. That’s
cool
for tuning “stuff” on a radio
but not so useful for feeding machines. The radio => computer part was
solved long ago. I don’t see
re-inventing it as part of this little board.
Case A example:
Poke at the buttons, watch the LCD, decide what you want. Poke a button or
two and it saves the settings.
Feed it 8N1 9600 baud with the top 3 bits all set to 1 (looks like a *big*
stop bit on a scope). Board just takes
the low bits and pushes them out to the printer. Keyboard in just reverses
the process. Do something cute so
X-0N X-0FF works.
Case B example:
Fancy terminal program with lots of buttons. Poke a button and the settings
change on the fly. Pick an alphabet,
bit width, baud rate, and format from thousands of choices.
Terminal program sends double character pairs (everything has an escape on
it) at 9600 baud. Still not to hard
com wise. The X-ON X-OFF stuff gets mapped to the escape codes. (Yes there
are *may* other choices). Maybe
flip parity on the two “halves” to keep things straight. Lots of bandwidth
for control, no problem sending full 8 bit
data through. No weird double / triple escape stuff to mess with on either
end.
Thoughts?
I can see that case B is a lot more cool. I’m having a really hard time
figuring out how anybody would *use* it…..
Bob
> On Mar 2, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Lester Veenstra <Lester at veenstras.com>
wrote:
>
> Yes; a lot of corporate changes for such a standard product
>
>
> I was planning on starting from this basic circuit (attached)
>
> Are you suggesting a PWM switch to limit to 60 ma loop current?
>
> Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
> lester at veenstras.com
>
> US Postal Address:
> 5 Shrine Club Drive
> HC84 Box 89C
> Keyser WV 26726
> GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
> GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
>
>
> Telephones:
> Home: +1-304-289-6057
> US cell +1-304-790-9192
> UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749
> Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
> Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898
>
> This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
> privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by
> the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
> intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to
> the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
distribution
> or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is
> prohibited.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Camp [mailto:kb8tq at n1k.org]
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 10:14 AM
> To: lester at veenstras.com
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
>
> Hi
>
> Yup, been on TimeNuts for a while.
>
> I’m never sure what to call the company:
> Oak, Corning, Vectron. Piezo, Oscillatek, Cinox,
> TeleQuartz, QuartzKeramic, or even Harris Crystal…..
>
> I generally avoid mentioning the connection. There are
> a lot of people out there looking for schematics of this
> or that oscillator. Back in Norwalk I had a guy who’s full
> time job was to find old schematics, just for stuff that was
> going back into production. It’s even worse today.
>
> ==============
>
> So:
>
> How do you feel about constant current loops?
>
> (as in => how crazy do you want to get with this board)
>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Mar 1, 2015, at 8:13 AM, Lester Veenstra <Lester at veenstras.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Vectron Now theres a company I know
>> Are you also on timenuts?
>>
>>
>> Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
>> lester at veenstras.com
>>
>> US Postal Address:
>> 5 Shrine Club Drive
>> HC84 Box 89C
>> Keyser WV 26726
>> GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
>> GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
>>
>>
>> Telephones:
>> Home: +1-304-289-6057
>> US cell +1-304-790-9192
>> UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749
>> Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
>> Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898
>>
>> This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
>> privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only
by
>> the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
>> intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail
to
>> the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution
>> or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto
is
>> prohibited.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Camp [mailto:kb8tq at n1k.org]
>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:44 PM
>> To: lester at veenstras.com
>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> One other minor point:
>>
>> Home:
>>
>> Bob Camp
>> 20 Roaring Creek Court
>> Carlisle PA 17013
>>
>> (717) 240 0971
>>
>> Work:
>>
>> Vectron
>> 100 Watts St
>> Mount Holly Springs PA 17065
>>
>> (717) 486 6066
>>
>> I’m about 4 hours east of you.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 5:16 PM, Lester Veenstra <Lester at veenstras.com>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> The question will be, for all the pins on the two headers, which ones
> will
>> need to be interconnected. I assume that most have no application.
>>> Second, will this power from the USB port or will I need to provide
>> additional power.
>>>
>>> What should I order to be able to prototype in parallel with you, and
> will
>> the final units need to be programmed at power up or will be able to
load
>> and ship?
>>>
>>> <image003.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
>>> lester at veenstras.com
>>>
>>> US Postal Address:
>>> 5 Shrine Club Drive
>>> HC84 Box 89C
>>> Keyser WV 26726
>>> GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
>>> GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
>>>
>>>
>>> Telephones:
>>> Home: +1-304-289-6057
>>> US cell +1-304-790-9192
>>> UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749
>>> Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
>>> Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898
>>>
>>> This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
>>> privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only
by
>> the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
>> intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail
to
>> the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> distribution
>> or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto
is
>> prohibited.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Camp [mailto:kb8tq at n1k.org]
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 5:08 PM
>>> To: lester at veenstras.com
>>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The FRDM-KL43Z that is $15 from Mouser is the newer of the boards. It’
s
>> likely
>>> to be around longer. The pin spacing it the same as an Arduino shield,
so
>> it’s also
>>> likely to be compatible at some level with boards in the future.
>>>
>>> Pinouts are on page 3 here:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://cache.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/user_guide/FRDM-KL43Z_
>> QSG.pdf?fpsp=1
>>>
>>> Full schematics are here:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/hardware_tools/schematics/FR
>>
>
DM-KL43Z_SCH.pdf?WT_TYPE=Schematics&WT_VENDOR=FREESCALE&WT_FILE_FORMAT=pdf&W
>> T_ASSET=Downloads&fileExt=.pdf
>>>
>>> This gentleman seems to have already done the heavy lifting in terms
of
>> demonstrating the emulated UART will work:
>>>
>>>
>>
>
http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/app_note/AN5034.pdf?fasp=1&WT_TYP
>>
>
E=Application%20Notes&WT_VENDOR=FREESCALE&WT_FILE_FORMAT=pdf&WT_ASSET=Docume
>> ntation&fileExt=.pdf
>>>
>>> (Yes, it’s only really been out a week or three, but something is
better
>> than nothing. Odd that he did it all up while we were talking about
this.
>> Maybe he’s on GreenKeys..)
>>>
>>> Hookup suggestions (there are many choices):
>>>
>>> First - hook up all the grounds (generally a good idea).
>>>
>>> Second - see the sheet 5 (last page) of the schematic for the 9V, 5V,
and
>> 3V regulator stuff. The board i/o
>>> runs 3.3V logic so whatever is on the loop board will need to cope with
>> this. If an Arduino plugged into the same
>>> pins, it would likely be a 5V device (don’t know if you want to cope
with
>> that or not).
>>>
>>> If the gizmo talks via USB, then you don’t need the Freedom board UART’
s
>> to go anywhere. If RS-232 to a DB-9
>>> is a desired feature then port pins E22 and E23 (pins 5 and 7 on J4)
> would
>> be a good choice. E23 is the
>>> RX data into the MCU (You do *not* want to know how many times RX/TX
gets
>> mixed up on these things …).
>>>
>>> J2 pin 8 and J2 pin 10 (D6 and D7) are the input and output to the TTY.
>> J2-8 (D6) goes to the printer. J2-10 (D7) goes to the keyboard.
>>>
>>> I think the only gizmo on the Freedom board that you would loose with
> that
>> setup would be the light sensor. It could be patched
>>> to a pin other than the one it normally hooks to.
>>>
>>> J4 pins 2,4,6,8,10,12 are available for general use. I would use 10 and
> 12
>> for the flow control on the RS-232 DB-9 interface. It pretty
>>> much does not matter which one is which. The other 4 pins should
probably
>> get wired up for triggering things like sirens, deep fat fryers,
>>> canned messages, and T/R switching. What goes to what is sort of open
at
>> this point.
>>>
>>> I’d use something like the MAX 2323 chips for the RS-232 output. There
> are
>> an enormous number of people that make the same
>>> sort of thing. The only constraint is that you want one that will do
the
> 2
>> outs and 2 ins and work at 3.3V.
>>>
>>> I would resist the temptation to only make holes in the loop board for
> the
>> pins we use off of the Freedom board. Anything we don’t use
>>> should go to a solder pad so it can be jumped somewhere in the future.
>>>
>>> The only guarantee in all of the above is that it’s wrong. There is
>> absolutely no way that the original definition
>>> of something like this *ever* survives intact to the end of the
project.
>>>
>>> Net result of all this should be a gizmo that (if coded properly) can
do
>> any baud rate that a mechanical printer can cope with. It
>>> also should do 4/5/6/7/8 bit codes and any rational combo of start and
>> stop bits. The easy way to do it is to bit map
>>> the ASCII input bits directly to output bits and do the reverse on
>> receive. Then any alphabet mapping and shift / unshift (or triple
shift)
>>> stuff gets handled at a higher level. There’s every reason to expect
it
> to
>> be able to play canned messages. The board has 256K bytes
>>> of flash on it. At least half of that should be available for messages.
>> How many boxes of paper do you have ….:)
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Lester Veenstra <Lester at veenstras.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bob Either the $12 or the $15 board ?
>>>> Just tell me which, and what pins I need to bring down, from I, t to
the
>>>> interface board
>>>>
>>>> The project starts to look like a triple function board design,
populate
>> as
>>>> needed
>>>>
>>>> Current loop receive two current loop transmit loop supply option
with
>>>> external transformer
>>>> Built in DB-9, USB adaptor and the universal translating converting
>> adaptor
>>>> (your effort).
>>>>
>>>> Question for wider GKN audience:
>>>>
>>>> Know any cheap SOURCES OF 115:115 transformers to use as foundation of
>> loop
>>>> supply. Also, how much AC ripple is considered acceptable on a 60 ma
>> loop?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
>>>> lester at veenstras.com
>>>>
>>>> US Postal Address:
>>>> 5 Shrine Club Drive
>>>> HC84 Box 89C
>>>> Keyser WV 26726
>>>> GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
>>>> GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Telephones:
>>>> Home: +1-304-289-6057
>>>> US cell +1-304-790-9192
>>>> UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749
>>>> Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
>>>> Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
>>>> privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only
>> by
>>>> the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not
the
>>>> intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail
>> to
>>>> the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>> distribution
>>>> or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto
>> is
>>>> prohibited.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Bob Camp [mailto:kb8tq at n1k.org]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 9:56 AM
>>>> To: lester at veenstras.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> If nobody else raises their hand, I can do it on a Freedom board
pretty
>>>> quickly.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Lester Veenstra <Lester at veenstras.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So, does anyone want to (or hopefully, all ready done) the code for
>> this
>>>>> platform to get from USB ASCII to TTL level Baudot (and ASCII) at
the
>>>>> usual baud rates?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
>>>>> lester at veenstras.com
>>>>>
>>>>> US Postal Address:
>>>>> 5 Shrine Club Drive
>>>>> HC84 Box 89C
>>>>> Keyser WV 26726
>>>>> GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google)
>>>>> GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Telephones:
>>>>> Home: +1-304-289-6057
>>>>> US cell +1-304-790-9192
>>>>> UK cell +44-(0)7849-248-749
>>>>> Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
>>>>> Jamaica: +1-876-456-8898
>>>>>
>>>>> This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or
>>>>> privileged information. The information is intended to be for use
only
>> by
>>>>> the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not
the
>>>>> intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the
e-mail
>> to
>>>>> the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>>>> distribution
>>>>> or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached
hereto
>> is
>>>>> prohibited.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bob Camp [mailto:kb8tq at n1k.org]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 12:50 PM
>>>>> To: lester at veenstras.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] RS232 to TTY Loop Boards
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, the whole baud rate / stop bit format thing is a can of
worms.
>> The
>>>>> more picky you get
>>>>> the more worms you have to deal with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/FRDM-KL43Z/?qs=s
>>>>> GAEpiMZZMtzpSA5GSDwa4h%2fTfDsQpc4eHEHoEETWww%3d
>>>>>
>>>>> for $15 (why that one - I have on in my hand ..) has USB on it
already
>> as
>>>>> well as a pair of MCU’s. It’s got enough
>>>>> horsepower to bit bang anything you would ever want to play with on a
>>>>> current loop device. You can either bit bang
>>>>> the stuff or run it in and out of the SPI port.
>>>>>
>>>>> That’s the easy part, maybe a weekend project. Write it in C, run in
in
>>>> MQX.
>>>>> Do it all with free tools. Open source the whole thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> The higher level problem is the PC side of running the beast. You hit
>> it
>>>>> with ASCII and run it in ASCII. The
>>>>> Freedom board takes care of all the ASCII to 5, 6, 7 level code(s).
>> There
>>>>> needs to be a Windows / Mac / Linux / Free BSD / Solaris / Dos 3.1 /
….
>>>>> program on the
>>>>> other end to switch things around. Also whatever terminal program
you
>> are
>>>>> running needs to understand what is on the other end.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again just code, probably a bit more than a weekend project. Think a
>> bit
>>>>> about the list of OS’s before you start writing…..
>>>>>
>>>>> Toss in the usual “cool stuff” and both sides get a bit more
complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still not much of a board. Not very expensive to do. Just some code
to
>>>> write
>>>>> and debug.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
> <converter.sch>
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