[GreenKeys] Kleinschmidt TT-4A

Thu Jul 5 01:29:51 EDT 2012

Greg and Duncan:

It is a good bet that those Australian TT-4s came from the Australian  Army.

During the 1960s and in their participation in the Vietnam War, the 
Australian Army purchased the AN/MSC-29 tactical CommCenter vans
which were essentially produced for the US Army in the mid-1950s.
They were contemporaries of the AN/GRC-26D large RATT vans of
the era.

They had about a dozen of those, and generally used them as part of a
field tape relay system, because the vans were easily transportable
on the equivalent of a 2 1/2 ton truck. AN/MSC-29 vans could be
"strapped' together so that several could be operated as a single
unit to form a large tape relay station. Individually, the 29 vans  could
also be used as a large terminal station for a major headquarters in
the field. 

Each AN/MSC-29 was equipped with 8 TT-4s and 8 TT-76s. It could
support 4 full duplex circuits, or 8 half duplex circuits. Crypto  gear
originally was the KW-9, but in our time, the KW-7 was in use.
The TH-5/TG Terminal Telegraph was the equivalent of today's modem
(a tube-driven piece of equipment), later replaced by the TH-22/TG
a transistorized version, of the TH-5 (same size and mounted in the
same place in the van). The MSC-29 also came equipped with
the SB-22 12 line field switchboard and a TA-312 field  telephone.

The Australian Army also had a few AN/PGC-1s,of which the TT-4 was
the basic component. The PGC-1 could be set up in a tent, and did not
include any other equipment except the wood carrying case which was
(in the field) used as the table to support the TT-4. The AN/PGC-1  was
not part of the AN/MSC-29  system, although the TT-4s were  easily
interchangeable.

The Australian Army also had a few AN/MGC-17s -- a much smaller
version of the AN/MSC-29 which could be carried on a 3/4 ton truck
or equivalent. The MGC-17 ("Magic 17") could support one full duplex
circuit, or 2 half duplex circuits, but was rarely ever used in these
configurations. Normally, one half duplex circuit was used, and the
remaining equipment was used for off line message preparation.
The MGC-17 came equipped with 2 TT-4s, 2 TT-76s, 1 SB-22
and 1 TA-312, and 2 TH-5s. It had provision for installation of
2 KW-7s (or older KW-9s), but usually, one of the KW-7 positions
was taken up by a small field safe (on US models_.

In general practice, AN/MSC-29s connected to other MSC-29s,
MGC-17s and sometimes the PGC-1s, depending on field set up.

Hope this helps with some of the operations background on these
machines.

Dave in SC
CommCenter-1 Group

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In a message dated 7/5/2012 1:32:09 A.M. UTC-02, duncanancy at earthlink.net  
writes:

Greg,

The TT-4 was the basic tactical teletypewriter of the  US Army from 1950 
into the 1970s.  (1948 isn't too far   off,  but production didn't start 
until about 1950.  Look at the  nomenclature plate: there should be a 
"Contract number."  Usually the  last two digits of the contract number 
is the year of the  contract.)

During WWII, the US Army realized the importance of  teletypewriters, but 
wanted something a little lighter than the Teletype  Corp Model 15. 
Edward Kleinschmidt was one of the founders of the Teletype  Corporation 
in the 1920s.  When the US Army announced that they  wanted a design for 
a new family of machines, EE Kleinschmidt came out of  retirement  to 
found Kleinschmidt Laboratories Inc. and design the  new machine for the 
Army.  Other KLI machines that came out of the  TT-4 design are the TT-98 
( a deluxe, fixed station, TT-4, and the TT-76,  a tape reperforator and 
tape reader. (there were then many derivations of  these machines.)  So  
the TT-4 is a "historic" teletypewriter,  but there are very few (if any) 
individuals who would pay $250 for  one.

The $250 (USD) price is high, even for one in perfect condition.  The 
TT-4A is an early model, there were also "B" & "C" models, which  had 
minor improvements.  $25 would be closer, especially  for  unknown 
condition.  First  test of an unknown condition TTY is  to try to turn 
the motor by hand (CW for TT-4). If it turns and things  move inside the 
machine, it is probably usable.

Parts for any old  TTY can be hard to come by, but they were built 
ruggedly and usually all  an old one needs is cleaning and lubrication.

I was a US Army TTY  repairman and worked on the TT-4s in Viet Nam. I 
always liked the TT-4  because they are relatively straight-forward and 
easy to work  on.

Depending on their condition, here in the US, you might get both of  them 
for $25.  But they are probably more rare in Australia.  If  you can 
negotiate a reasonable price, I would take both of them.   Once you get 
them working, you can see which is the better unit and use  the other for 
parts.

Have fun & good luck,

Duncan,  K2OEQ
USASA 31J30

On 04-Jul-12 08:00, Greg Arnoldussen  wrote:
> Hello.  I have found two Kleinschmidt TT-4A  teletypewriters for sale 
> locally (here in Australia).  I had  only enough time to take a 
> fleeting glance at the machines as I was  on a short break from my 
> work, one has a cover and one does  not.  He has tagged the machines as 
> being made in 1948 but I  think they may be more modern than this.
>
> I am hoping someone  in the "know" could provide a brief account of 
> this particular  model.  From my limited reading on the subject they 
> appear to be  fairly rare models?  He wants $250 each and as I do not 
> know if  they even work (condition etc)  I think that is an excessive 
>  price and I would have to beat him down quite a bit before I was 
>  interested.
>
> I am interested in attempting to restore a  teletypewriter of some 
> model and since they appear to be difficult to  source here I think 
> these two machines might be a good place to start  - however, in 
> addition to a history lesson I'd also like to know if  (in general) the 
> parts are going to be a challenge to source.   Like I said they look to 
> be in OK condition.
>
> I hope  to provide the forum with more details on the weekend - sorry 
> that  they have been sketchy thus far!
>
> Thanks for your  time.
>
> Greg.
>
>
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