[GreenKeys] Possible net-to-tty project

Fri Aug 31 21:22:31 EDT 2012

Just a suggestion. I would recommend to allow the device to be configured using a browser. Many of these uC/Ethernet modules have basic http services and can be configured this way (like your home network router).  And if possible, I would also suggest that the firmware be upgradable by uploading a .bin file or similar. This way as new features are created they can be upgraded. I would also suggest to not skimp on memory and flash.  Who knows what cool things might come its way. Think about a heavymetal implementation on this device! Just an idea.

And although it may not be possible, it would be great to have an audio output in case someone wants to use their TU to handle the loop. (audio input too? Who knows!)

Let the scope creep begin! haha

73 Eugene W2HX

From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of gil at baudot.net
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:15 AM
To: Keelan Lightfoot
Cc: aaa-greenkeys
Subject: [GreenKeys] Possible net-to-tty project

Hey Keelan (and, well, anyone else who might want to help):

If you get code running on the xport to grab and massage the itty feed (and other internet sources), and can pump it out in either baudot or ascii as needed, I can provide the circuit board for the rest.  I have not looked at the xport lately, but I see that they are still readily-available at mouser.com<http://mouser.com>.  How are they programmed?  Is there a decent-priced dev kit available?  I ask because I need to find a new ethernet solution for my products.

I have not looked too far yet, but I did peek at the Digi-Connect line (also a can like xport):
Digi Connect ME:
http://store.digi.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=503
4M flash, 8M ram, wired 10/100Base-T version, $52 qty 1
The nice thing about this part is that there is a WIFI VERSION AVAILABLE that drops into the same pcb footprint with no changes (provided you leave a bit extra space for a deeper can).

I also looked at this module from modtronix:
http://www.modtronix.com/product_info.php?cPath=181_182&products_id=416
also see:
http://netcruzer.com/
these little header-mount modules use a powerful pic (my uC family of choice anyway), the free microchip tcp/ip stack, and open compilers.

Just an FYI on those parts -- if you are having good luck with the xport, then by all means tell me more.

My tty-connect hardware
http://www.baudot.net/tty-connect.htm
currently has two high-voltage loops intended for baudot machines (M14/15/19/28/31...) and one low-voltage loop intended for ascii machines (M33/43...).  I am not certain whether an M35 would connect to an HV or LV loop.  Anyway, I have a little underpowered pic in the center that provides bit-banged i/o between the three loops for speed conversion, and a 232 input port that takes ascii and converts to baudot as needed.  I'll dig out my conversion code when I get to the office later and send it to you.

Here is my wish-list for what a network version of tty-connect:

- ethernet port and controller that provides data to the loops (I can provide can power, and provide the opto-isolation and loop circuitry, and you just provide a 3.3 or 5V data signal).

- the hot setup would be to have separate ports (from the can, if there are pins available) for each loop so it would be more than just ethernet-to-loop only -- it would be nice to have a 45-baud tty on loop one talking to a 75-baud unit on loop two, or converted to ascii and talking to an M33 on the LV loop.  This was one feature I provided in the tty-connect firmware, so people could hook all their various machines up to it, and use it various ways (232-to-tty, tty-tty on single loop, tty-to-diff-speed-tty on other loop...). A lot of this will depend on what you can do in the xport (which I need to look at), but we can talk about what is practical to implement.

- the internet side of it is an area where my knowledge is more limited.  The ethernet port needs some discovery mechanism, client code needs to be written to find it, connect a tcp socket and all that. Some sort of client code on pc/mac/linux?  Something browser-based that is more portable?  I dunno.

- I would sure like to be able to email to a tty machine!  If you can set up a receive email feature in the xport, that would be awesome.  Probably easy to go the other way (type on the tty and send an email).  But a full 2-way email capability (or even, and especially, the receive function), would be very cool.

- SMS text messages would be more work as I understand it.

- Sending a tweet to a machine would also be fun like these guys did a couple of years ago with a thermal printer from sparkfun.  They used their $40 "web-platform" pcb, which is also a pic-based unit using the microchip stack:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/2011/06/27/thermal-tweeter-facts-and-figures-faq-dangerousproto/
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/web-platform-kit-p-582.html?cPath=61_68

anyway, let's talk some more.

gil

gil smith
greenkeys moderator
gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>
www.baudot.net<http://www.baudot.net>
Vaux Electronics: 480-354-5556

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Feeding ITTY to the teletype; simulating
M33/35 teletypes hooked to computers like in the 70s
From: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan at grenander.com<mailto:keelan at grenander.com>>
Date: Wed, August 29, 2012 10:30 pm
To: <gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>> <gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>>
Cc: aaa-greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>, William Bytheway
<k7tty at q.com<mailto:k7tty at q.com>>

Gil,

The serial drivers for the UART on the X-<http://->Port support 5 to 8 bit codes, but the driver (and the Linux serial subsystem) doesn't support 45.45 baud. Fortunately, the UART in the X-<http://->Port is quite flexible, and it can be configured to talk at 45.45 baud with very little work.

I have the ITA2<-<http://->>ASCII 90% complete, but if you have something that is 'ready to ship', that would be handy too. In digging around my archives, I have complete conversion code that I wrote for a project that created a streaming audio steam of an RTTY feed generated from a text file -<http://->-<http://-> a 'virtual ITTY'.

I think we could very quickly come up with a workable solution, using your hardware, with an X-<http://->Port and my software in place of the computer. I have schematics drawn up, and all the parts purchased to roll my own, but to be honest, I trust your design more than my own!

The X-<http://->Port can run a small web server to allow for configuration of the serial port. Once the serial port is up and running, I imagine that a very simple command line interface could exist (accessed via TTY) to allow for connection a TTYoIP server, or for direct connection to another TTY using the same kind of hardware. A fox generator could also be accessed via the same menu. In my vision, a TTYoIP server could be accessed that would give access to multiple channels -<http://->-<http://-> 'chat rooms' (virtual loops), private person-<http://->to-<http://->person conferences, and read only streaming news services. Once connected to a server, the possibilities would be endless.

Thinking this through, I could use my streaming RTTY server to eavesdrop on the public areas and re-<http://->broadcast them as streaming audio feeds, for those so inclined...

I'll take some time to scrounge up my notes and get myself re-<http://->aclimated with what I've done so far...

-<http://-> Keelan

On 2012-<http://->08-<http://->29, at 10:43 AM, <gil at baudot.net<http://[email protected]>> <gil at baudot.net<http://[email protected]>> wrote:

> Hi Keelan:
>
> Interesting idea. I have wanted to have an ethernet-<http://->to-<http://->tty adapter for some time. I used x-<http://->ports years back, but didn't write any code for them -<http://->-<http://-> just put them into a custom product for an oem customer. I am looking into a similar can from Digi for a new project. The nice thing about either the lantronix or digi parts is it is just a simple little small-<http://->footprint can, has enough compute power to do lots internally, and only costs about $50 to $60 qty 1. Just gotta program the can, and then you need some sort of pc/mac/linux client to discover and connect to it, or maybe something browser/java-<http://->based or whatever.
>
> The nice thing about George and Bill's ITTY, is that you can take the audio out of a PC sound card, feed it into your vintage dovetron, and plug your tty into the loop jack. Very cool, and simple.
>
> Decoding the audio with an FFT cruncher, while a fun project in itself, seems like a big task just to get at the data the George and Bill are pumping into their modulator. I would imagine it would not be difficult to get the ITTY simple baudot/ascii text available on the internet as some sort of data stream (George? Bill?)
>
> I did the tty-<http://->connect 232-<http://->to-<http://->loop stuff years ago, and always meant to update it, but never found the time. I considered making it a usb-<http://->to-<http://->loop converter, to get around all the problems with obsolete serial ports on pcs, but ethernet would be better. Even better when the code can be embedded in a can. So a couple of things come to mind:
>
> 1) Is it necessary to demodulate the audio from itty, of can we get that as an internet data stream somehow?
> -<http://-> a question for George and Bill
>
> 2) Whether getting the data directly, or demodulating the audio, gives you a stream that you can feed to a serial port for a tty loop.
> -<http://-> sounds like you can do this code in the can, along with all the mystical internet things that are needed.
>
> 3) The stream should be in ascii, so we can send it to an M33/35/43 machine at 110-<http://->baud, or subsequently converted to baudot (with inserted figs shifts etc) for all the rest of our machines.
> -<http://-> I wrote code for this years ago.
>
> 4) The serial port will be a logic-<http://->level (3.3V or 5V) signal that needs to go to an opto-<http://->isolated loop keyer.
> -<http://-> I have done this before.
>
> Hmm, sounds to me like if you get the code to get data out of the can, I could modify my tty-<http://->connect board to rip out the little 232-<http://->pic-<http://->converter section, drop in your can, and provide the loop interfacing. If you additionally provide, on one of the gpio lines, a machine-<http://->power signal, a couple of seconds before sending data, we could automatically power the tty too.
>
> Then we need some way to, using a browser maybe, send the itty feed to our machine at address X. Or maybe send a text file to someone else's machine at address Y. Maybe be able to send an email to a machine. Or maybe use twitter from a cell phone to send a message somewhere on someone's machine (like the guys at dangerous prototypes did with a thermal printer). And a way to toggle our machine into private/public mode. And a pushbutton to print out a pre-<http://->loaded message as a quick demo for when people come to visit.
>
> A whole stinkin' network of teletype machines, using the internet like telex, er, telexnet?
>
> I'm just rambling now, but there there might be a not-<http://->too-<http://->difficult project there.
>
> gil smith
> greenkeys moderator
> gil at baudot.net<http://[email protected]>
> www.baudot.net<http://www.baudot.net>
> Vaux Electronics: 480-<http://->354-<http://->5556
>
>
>
> -<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://-> Original Message -<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->-<http://->
> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Feeding ITTY to the teletype; simulating
> M33/35 teletypes hooked to computers like in the 70s
> From: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan at grenander.com<http://[email protected]>>
> Date: Tue, August 28, 2012 9:45 pm
> To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net<http://[email protected]>>
> Cc: Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<http://[email protected]>>
>
>
> Paul,
>
> I've started work on a similar project, but my idea is to cut out the audio middle man. I've written a server in C that handles communication between multiple TTYs over IP, using a ring buffer clocked at 45.45 baud to allow for semi-<http://->realistic garble when more than one person is talking at a time. For hardware, I'm using a Lantronix X-<http://->Port, which runs Linux. It has a single ethernet port, a serial port and a couple general purpose IO pins.
>
> I've tweaked the linux kernel on the X-<http://->Port to allow me to reduce the baud rate of the serial port to 45.45 baud, I just need to write the client software.
>
> I've got all the bits and pieces accumulated to build a prototype board with a loop keyer, patiently waiting until my interest cycle swings that way again.
>
> -<http://-> Keelan
>
> On 2012-<http://->08-<http://->28, at 7:55 PM, Paul Heller wrote:
>
> > I'm experimenting with something, but it is very early days. There are small computers, the size of an Altoids (the mints) tin. These full fledges computers run linux...
>
> -<http://-> snip -<http://->
>
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