[GreenKeys] Tube powered loop supply

Wed May 6 12:26:35 EDT 2009

FYI, I looked all over the Apex Electronics site for the USN 60 mil Teleprinter Power Supply and could not find any, so I called them directly. They are no longer available. 

Regards, 

Steve R. 

steveripper at comcast.net 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net 
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 12:00:26 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: GreenKeys Digest, Vol 64, Issue 11 

Send GreenKeys mailing list submissions to 
        greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
        http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
        greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net 

You can reach the person managing the list at 
        greenkeys-owner at mailman.qth.net 

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
than "Re: Contents of GreenKeys digest..." 

Today's Topics: 

   1. Tube powered loop supply (John Nagle) 
   2. Re: (no subject) (Randy or Sherry Guttery) 
   3. Re: death by teletype (Don Robert House) 
   4. Re: death by teletype (Roy Morgan) 
   5. Tube based loop supply (Rdelgatto) 
   6. Re: Tube powered loop supply (Jim Haynes) 
   7. Re: Tube based loop supply (Nick England) 

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1 
Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 23:22:37 -0700 
From: John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> 
Subject: [GreenKeys] Tube powered loop supply 
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Message-ID: <4A012CAD.5020509 at animats.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

> One of my goals is to set up a completely tube (hollow state) RTTY station. 
> Got the ASR 28 and TT/L-2 (Courtesy of Jack K0TTY), and am in the process of 
> building a W2PAT AFSK device. 
> 
> Now, I need to be aimed in the direction of a tube based loop powersupply 
> circuit without any solid state rectifiers. I have googled extensively and 
> have found nothing. 

http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML5U4G.htm 
http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/274.gif 

You don't need to buy a 5U4 from them; there are cheaper sources. 

http://thetubestore.com/5u4types.html 

Realistically, a big semiconductor power diode behind a transformer isn't going 
to blow from EMP.  The active volume is too big. The vulnerable gates are 
in ICs or connected to wires of a meter or more in length. 

                                        John Nagle 

------------------------------ 

Message: 2 
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 00:53:09 -0500 
From: Randy or Sherry Guttery <comcents at bellsouth.net> 
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] (no subject) 
To: "greenkeys at mailman.qth.net" <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> 
Message-ID: <4A0125C5.101 at bellsouth.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

amourdutigre wrote: 

> Now, I need to be aimed in the direction of a tube based loop 
> powersupply circuit without any solid state rectifiers. 

A 117Z3 (miniature) or 117Z4 (octal) will handle a single 60ma. loop 
just fine. Both tubes are available from Antique Electronics 
(tubesandmore.com) for $3.60 and $2.48 respectively (of course they have 
a minimum order of $10.00 - but you'd probably want to order a few 
anyway). These would make a Non-isolated supply - but if referenced to 
ground- nothing unusual. If you use an isolation transformer (or two 
filament transformers back to back) for isolation - then any of the 
traditional rectifiers would work 80, 5R4, 5U4, or to be really neat - 
use an 83. 

> I do not dislike solid state, but I do want to 
> have a completely EMP proof system, and I simply like tubes.) 

No such thing. While tubes in most traditional circuits tend to be less 
vulernable to EMP than some solid-state devices in similar circuits - a 
strong enough, close enough EMP will take out everything, including 
wires (or more likely - the wire's insulation). 

best regards... 
-- 
randy guttery 

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews 
so vital to the United States Silent Service: 
http://tendertale.com 

------------------------------ 

Message: 3 
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 00:57:10 -0500 
From: Don Robert House <k9tty at dls.net> 
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] death by teletype 
To: kh-phillips at 9-5usa.org 
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Message-ID: <529ACE74-3C1A-44D1-B888-2E7AA2CB5CE6 at dls.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes 

Too much heat.  Could be the machine is not getting enough ventilation   
or could be the typing unit needs lubrication, or both. 

Don 
K9TTY 

On 5 May 2009, at 10:42 PM, kh-phillips at 9-5usa.org wrote: 

For future reference, the problem was that the thermal circuit breaker   
on 
the motor had tripped.  The solution was to press/reset that button. 
Thanks to all who replied.  I guess a question remains as to *why* the 
breaker tripped. 

73 
Kevin 
KE5CQJ 

> I need some help troubleshooting a 28KSR.  This past weekend I was   
> using 
> it to work the ARI DX Contest.  It had worked fine until about 30 
> minutes before the end of the contest when it "died" while copying   
> along 
> as if the power had been cut.  The cabinet lights were still burning, 
> however.  The motor will turn freely by hand.  I checked the fuse on   
> the 
> LESU and it seems OK.  What else can/should I check? 
> 
> Thanks for any help and advice. 
> 
> 73 
> Kevin 
> KE5CQJ 
> ______________________________________________________________ 
> GreenKeys mailing list 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
> 

______________________________________________________________ 
GreenKeys mailing list 
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

------------------------------ 

Message: 4 
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 04:39:02 -0400 
From: Roy Morgan <k1lky at earthlink.net> 
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] death by teletype 
To: Don Robert House <k9tty at dls.net> 
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Message-ID: <0AF60C3D-8309-4539-91D9-C71475CE3487 at earthlink.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes 

On May 6, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Don Robert House wrote: 

> Too much heat.  Could be the machine is not getting enough ventilation 
> or could be the typing unit needs lubrication, or both. 
> 
> On 5 May 2009, at 10:42 PM, kh-phillips at 9-5usa.org wrote: 
> 
> ... the thermal circuit breaker  on the motor had tripped. ... a   
> question remains as to *why* the 
> breaker tripped. 

Don's hit it on the head.  (the thermal breaker *may* have gotten a   
case of old age, but not likely). 

A bit of oil in the motor grease fittings may do wonders.  The Model   
14 typing reperforator governed motor here ran well but seems much   
happier with a squirt of oil into the  "ball bearing sealed" grease   
fittings.  Later, a motor tear down, cleaning and re-greasing will get   
it set for another half century of running. 

By the way, at least three of the oil cups on this typing reperforator   
have been broken off.  Does anyone have spares? 

Roy 

Roy Morgan 
k1lky at earthlink.net 
529 Cobb St. 
Groton NY, 13073 

------------------------------ 

Message: 5 
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 08:48:34 -0400 
From: Rdelgatto <petescny at optonline.net> 
Subject: [GreenKeys] Tube based loop supply 
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Message-ID: <KCEGIPEDBBFNHAEGAFEKAEPLCMAA.Petescny at optonline.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 

Hi Joe, Group, 
I posted a good source for a bullet proof military loop supply. A few 
of you already purchased some and I am sure you are happy as I know I am 
with the ones I have. Joe you might want to give it a try to! 
Just to let you all know while surfing the web I came across source of 
USN 60 mil Teleprinter Power supplies. If you look up APEX ELECTRONICS 
and scroll through the site you will find them. He is asking $50.00 ea. 
and they are nice. I have 2 that I have been using for years. 
Jack, K0TTY, you know where they came from!! 
Enjoy 
Bob 
Message: 9 
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:51:42 -0500 
From: "amourdutigre" <amourdutigre at kc.rr.com> 
Subject: [GreenKeys] (no subject) 
To: "greenkeys at mailman.qth.net" <Greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> 
Message-ID: <000e01c9cdfd$f80c85c0$9c161e41 at win06v5> 
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="iso-8859-1" 

Hi again, 

One of my goals is to set up a completely tube (hollow state) RTTY station. 
Got the ASR 28 and TT/L-2 (Courtesy of Jack K0TTY), and am in the process of 
building a W2PAT AFSK device. 

Now, I need to be aimed in the direction of a tube based loop powersupply 
circuit without any solid state rectifiers. I have googled extensively and 
have found nothing. (Presently, I am using a loop supply on loan from K0TTY, 
and I have just bought a loop supply from Steve Hilsz. (I do not dislike 
solid state, but I do want to have a completely EMP proof system, and I 
simply like tubes.) 

Once I get these things in place the next phase is a 40 Meter, single 
purpose (RTTY) transmitter. I am thinking about a mono-band unit that would 
simply be quite simple, without any audio circuitry. I am not an RF 
designer, so I would need help with this from someone who is, but I was 
wondering if a crystal controlled unit (rock bound) could be built with 
enough of a fudge factor that it could be used for FSK.  It would be cool if 
it could have a number of crystals to switch between. What is your thoughts 
on this? Does anyone know if this has been done before? 

Best and 73 
Joe Herdler 
KB0TXC 
Greenkeys 
TCI 
/NNNN 

------------------------------ 

Message: 6 
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:01:28 -0500 (CDT) 
From: Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net> 
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Tube powered loop supply 
To: John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> 
Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905060854140.2650 at localhost.localdomain> 
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII 

As others have said, first there were motor-generator sets, then copper 
oxide rectifiers, then selenium.  Someone else mentioned using an 83 tube 
and those were popular with Western Union.  The rectifiers using thyratron 
tubes and pretty much exclusively for the military market; and the reason 
for that is that the power frequency in the military is very uncertain, 
since they are using field generator sets.  For the same reason they used 
governed motors in military gear.  For use with stable frequency power 
sources Teletype liked to use ferroresonant transformer regulated supplies 
(same idea as the Sola constant voltage transformers) but they can't be 
used where the frequency varies. 

You can use any kind of rectifier tube that can handle the current.  This 
was pretty common in early vacuum tube TUs if they didn't use a polar 
relay; they perhaps used higher voltage to allow for the drop in the 
magnet keyer tube. 

In my childhood the telco had a customer, a truck line, with some kind 
of TTY installation and equipment that involved a 35L6 and a 50Y6 tube. 
I never saw the equipment, so I don't know what it was that used these 
off-the-shelf tubes instead of some Western Electric model.  But I know 
those were the tubes.  It's plausible that the 50Y6 was the rectifier 
for the loop and the 35L6 was a loop keyer, especially if it used a 20ma 
loop. 

------------------------------ 

Message: 7 
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:52:57 -0400 
From: "Nick England" <nick at virhistory.com> 
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Tube based loop supply 
To: <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> 
Message-ID: <06BF7DCF88374CD886ED0ECA1E948F93 at Heathkit2> 
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii" 

Unfortunately Apex is out of the Navy loop supplies. I ordered a couple 
after seeing Bob's previous mail but was too late. I have a schematic for 
the PP-765/U Navy tube-type loop supply at home and will scan it and post a 
link. 

Here is the manual including parts list and schematic for the TMC PSP-1 loop 
supply using a 5Y3 rectifier and 6Y6G current regulator - 
http://jptronics.org/radios/TMC/bulletins/ACC/tmc.ssb_121.pdf 

cheers, 
Nick 

----------------- 
Nick England K4NYW 
www.virhistory.com/navy   
-----Original Message----- 
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rdelgatto 
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 8:49 AM 
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [GreenKeys] Tube based loop supply 

Hi Joe, Group, 
I posted a good source for a bullet proof military loop supply. A few 
of you already purchased some and I am sure you are happy as I know I am 
with the ones I have. Joe you might want to give it a try to! 
Just to let you all know while surfing the web I came across source of 
USN 60 mil Teleprinter Power supplies. If you look up APEX ELECTRONICS 
and scroll through the site you will find them. He is asking $50.00 ea. 
and they are nice. I have 2 that I have been using for years. 
Jack, K0TTY, you know where they came from!! 
Enjoy 
Bob 

------------------------------ 

_______________________________________________ 
GreenKeys mailing list 
GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net 
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys 

End of GreenKeys Digest, Vol 64, Issue 11 
***************************************** 