[GreenKeys] WWII-Era "Computers"

[Larry Tighe]

Re: Tubes,

When I graduated helicopter flight school, I went to a guard unit as the war 
was just about over.  They had CH-34 Sikorski heavy lift machines.

It had a TUBE "S.A.S" or stability augmentation system.  First thing I was 
told during transition training to this huge monster was...don't ever turn 
that on !

I didn't :>)

Lar
K2JIA
www.antiquetelephone.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <don at thedjbrothers.com>
To: "'Don Robert House'" <k9tty at mchsi.com>; "'Greenkeys'" 
<greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 19:56
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] WWII-Era "Computers"


> To be more specific, WWII "computers" were mechanical or electrical, based
> on wheels of spinning contacts or racks of relays. None of the successful
> ones used vacuum tubes (which would make them "electronic"). The closest
> that any of them came to "general purpose" was the use of
> telephone-switchboard-style patch cords to link different components--and
> this is to say that they did not come close at all. They were analog
> machines built to solve very specific problems, as Don suggests below.
>
> It is remarkable how much was accomplished in that era using primitive
> mechanical and electrical technologies--relays, gears, Teletype paper 
> tape,
> and IBM card sorters. Pictures and good descriptions of some of the most
> sophisticated gear used at Bletchley Park and Arlington Hall are found in
> the book BATTLE OF WITS by Stephen Budiansky. Actually, the book spends 
> most
> of it's time on details of machine-assisted cryptography during the
> war--ENIGMA is discussed in detail, as are the BOMBEs, COLOSSUS and many 
> of
> the others that were tried with poor results. But the details of some of 
> the
> machines used, how they were applied and the cryptographic solutions they
> were designed to implement are very engaging for anyone interested in 
> either
> cryptography or crypto machines. I have a hard back copy for sale for $5
> plus $2.50 media mailing if anyone wants it. It's 400+ pages and has some
> pretty good story-telling interspersed with all the crypto-babble.
>
> -Don Merz
>
>
>
> Don Merz
> www.Ovation-Images.com
> 412-735-4959
>
> www.TheDJbrothers.com
> 412-344-0956
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Robert House
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:00 PM
> To: Greenkeys
> Subject: [GreenKeys] (no subject)
>
> David,
>
> I think you know the answer.  These analog calculators had electrical 
> parts
> but were not general purpose and not electronic.
> The gun directing analog computers did their job extremely well and very
> accurately, however I can find no evidence of them being used for any 
> other
> purpose than directing guns.  German battleships also had very good analog
> gun directors but again, I can find no reference for any other use.  Early
> radars could have possibly used a analog directing system that would have
> been similar.
>
> The gun directors on the the Iowa Class Battleships would be about the 
> same
> development period as the MARK I Calculator.  Another subject for further
> reference would be the Navy weapons location at Dahlgren, Virginia which 
> has
> been around for a very long time.  If Adm. Grace Hopper was still with us,
> she could verify this information.
>
> All the best,
> Don
> K9TTY
>
>
> On 11 Oct 2007, at 12:55 AM, David Weil wrote:
> Hi Don - I am forwarding this message to you since I think you or your
> Greenkeys buddies are better equipped to answer his question. I would only
> offer that the ENIAC and UNIVAC computers were general purpose machines
> while what he is referring to were analog guidance systems built to do one
> purpose, and while they can be considered a form of computer, they would 
> not
> serve a function outside of their intended deployment.
>
> Hope all is well with you and the family.
>
> All the best,
> David
>
> David Allen <davidallentrucking at msn.com> wrote:
> From: "David Allen" <davidallentrucking at msn.com>
> To: <dweil at computer-museum.org>
> Subject: First computers
> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:31:09 -0400
>
> Hi,
> Regarding the subject of the first electronic computers, I've found that 
> WW2
> battleships and other early military uses are rarely mentioned.  In
> searching this subject, I found your site which has been the most helpful 
> so
> far but am unable to find references to the information I want.  My 
> question
> is:
> Where would you place computers such as the one that can be viewed fully
> preserved onboard the USS North Carolina in Wilmington, NC in a review of
> the history of computers?
> As an admirer of US ingenuity from the WW2 era, I've often wondered why
> ENIAC and UNIVAC from the mid '40s to the late '50s get all the press 
> while
> battleships built ca.1939-40 were equipped with computers capable of
> providing firing solutions for their 16 and 5 inch guns and a host of 
> other
> purposes.  These data entry machines accepted input from about 25 manned
> stations and accounted for every variable imaginable to provide accurate
> gunnery, catapult plane launches, and aerial missions calculations.  (A 
> lot
> of people today don't know it, but WW2 aircraft missions in the Pacific 
> were
> often commanded from battleships,  not their base carrier.)  I know a lot 
> of
> this information hasn't filtered out yet and was still "classified top
> secret" until just a few years ago when ships still using some of the key
> components of the old computers were finally retired making many of their
> systems "de-classifiable".  I'm speaking of the USS Missouri (Pearl 
> Harbor)
> and USS Wisconsin (Norfolk) which were both active until after the first
> Gulf War.  One of these ships (can't remember
> which) was upgraded to a modern system in the late '80s and tested against
> the vintage one for accuracy.  The negligible improvement in accuracy and
> the staggering cost of the refit killed the upgrade plans for the other
> ship.  So to say that this type of data calculator was retired 50yrs ago 
> is
> untrue.
> I'm sorry if I've bored you.  Thanks a lot for any references you can
> provide.
> Yours,
> David Allen, Kannapolis, NC
> davidallentrucking at msn.com
>
> I learned the above information as it was made available on tours of the 
> USS
> NC and the USS WI/Nautilus Museum.
>
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