[GreenKeys] Enola Gay images available...

[Philipp Hachtmann]

Guten Abend Herr Hutchison,

ich denke, daß ich doch lieber Englisch schreibe, wegen des besseren 
Verständnisses - obwohl ich auf Deutsch selbstverständlich viel 
wortgewandter bin.

> I agree that there are subjects of conversation that are perhaps 
> somewhat afield of the subject of teleprinters, but, inasmuch as you are 
> obviously somewhat uninformed about the clientele here on GreenKeys, 
Hm, perhaps. I *believed* to have subscribed to a mailing list of 
teleprinter enthusiasts. Now that seams not to be 100% correct any more.

> Firstly, you sit there and blabber a bit about how much "better" the 
> German stuff is as opposed to American Machines.
He, sorry, that was just a little provocation for fun. Nothing really 
important. But I still consider the rest of my posting important.

> If you will look closely at some of the photos of some of the prized 
> German cryptographic equipment, let your beady little eyes feast uponst 
> the rangefinders - they are obviously identical to those found in the 
> American model 14, 15, etc. equipment.
Yes, they are.

> Ever consider why the Nazis went 
> so far, (and we Americans were so stupid as to do so) license the Lorenz 
> outfit to build the LO15, a German Knockoff of the model 15? Perhaps the 
> most simple answer is that it was BETTER than what the great minds of 
> Krups, Messerschmidt, and what have you could come up with.
Yes, Lorenz did license Morkrum/Teletype machines. But they licensed 
teletype model 14/15 already back in 1929 afaik!
The model 15 is a great machine.
The Teletype licenses made it impossible for Siemens, competitor of 
Lorenz, to build a moving head teleprinter until the late 50s.
So Siemens constructed the bit odd moving paper (like on a typewriter) 
T37 which is very robust and already well designed.
Lorenz in the meantime incorporated paper tape reader and punch into the 
Lo15 - smaller and and at least as good and reliable as the Teletype 
equivalent.
The much later following Lo133 was an ugly machine. Not interesting.
In 1959 Siemens introduced the T100. Sorry to say that, but I consider 
the T100 the best mechanical teleprinter ever made. That was a problem 
for Siemens because they had problems selling newer machines. They 
learned from that and sold the crappy T1000 etc.
The T100 is light, extremely (!) reliable, has paper tape reader and 
punch - and all that in a desktop configuration.
Let's look at the Teletype machines.... Model 28/35 is a kind of heavy 
tractor, in Germany it would be a product of Hanomag (who sold reliable 
but heavy tractors) or similar company. Perhaps it was reliable - but I 
think it's constructed much too complicated - but very nice to watch, no 
question.
The model 32/33 is a collection of metal sheet - I always wonder that 
these devices work..... But they work... nearly reliable.


> Your Nazi forefathers knew a good thing, eh?
Please keep in mind who you are talking to. I am lucky to be able to say 
that there were no Nazis at all in my family. Exactly the opposite of 
Nazis. My father's father even saved a man from being deported to a KZ 
by silently keeping him in his little factory. And he ever refused to 
sign a letter with "Heil Hitler!".
So *I* don't have any Nazi forefathers. Perhaps you? Don't know....

> The people here on GreenKeys are largely American Veterans, having 
> served in one or more of our Armed Services during one or more of the 
> various conflicts that seem to keep on occurring. You indicate that you 
> are young. How unfortunate. You have no life experiences that can 
> compare to what some of us GreenKeyers endured during our tenure in our 
> Armed Services.
It's good to be young. And it's also good not to have this kind of 
experience I think.
And if someone has that experience he can come to different conclusions.
You will find a lot of veterans who regret a lot. And who would use the 
Enola Gay as a memorial rather than as a shrine of pride.

> Your countrymen, however, benefited greatly from a 
> little episode known as The Berlin Airlift, when virtually everything 
> was being flown in on AMERICAN Planes so that the people entrapped by 
> the Soviets could have enough on which to survive.
> Not a bad thing, eh?
Berlin Airlift was one of the greatest logistic masterpieces one can 
imagine. I know and honour that. But that has no relation to the atomic 
bomb, Enola Gay and aluminium kissing.

> My first real job in this world was in 1957 with a company known as 
> Applied Radiation Corporation, Walnut Creek, California. They built 
> Industrial and research linear accelerators used for irradiating 
> plastics, such as the Hewlett-Packard Probe Tip on their model 400 VTVM, 
> experimental food preservation projects, and a host of other applications.
> Applied Radiation was founded by a fellow known as Dick Jeppson.
> Who the hell is Dick Jeppson??
> 
> If you will open your obviously dusty history of WWII and look up the 
> 509th Bomb Group, you will find among other things that during the 
> historic flight of the Enola Gay the bomb dropped on Hiroshima was armed 
> by two men. One name I forget, but the other was a Lt. Morris R. Jeppson.
> 
> So what??
This great guy could have used his valuable lifetime better. His linear 
accelerator works seem not to be a result of his work for the army.....

> Again I reflect on your seemingly arrogant air that German stuff is so 
> much better, for the following reason - - -
Arrogant? Model 28, Queen of the Teletype or something like that I read 
on this list - that's arrogant.

> Applied Radiation is still in existence, but it is owned by a foreign 
> entity known as Siemens Medical Products.
:-)

> "WHAT? HOW CAN DOT BE?" you scream... Well, just maybe the American 
> Product was so good the industrial giants of your country had to not 
> only own one, they had to have the factory.
You see, they're not to proud to appreciate others' works.

> I really think you should close your mailbox, weld the damned thing 
> shut, and hope that one of those middle-easterners that have infested 
> your area of the world doesn't turn it into an IED.
Oh, proud American, perhaps you should explicitly not start a discussion 
about your country's engagement in middle east. I don't have the 
knowledge to go into a deeper discussion about that - but it makes a bad 
taste in my mouth.

> OH - - - while I was with RCA Service Company I DID work on German 
> Teleprinters... The Siemens PT-80, and the T-1000..
These machines were pieces of shit. Everybody knows that :-)

> The German arrogance prevailed there, as well, as we could get no 
> technical information on how anything worked.
That's Siemens, not "the German arrogance"!
Today it's still not easy to get detailed docs for these machines.

 > All we were allowed to do
> was swap boards, modules, power supplies (really sorry-assed design, if 
> you will) and so forth. 
The T1000 power supply is a known catastrophe. Sorry for that.


Let me conclude:
In a war people are killed.
God makes no difference between colours, races, religions.
All human beings have the same value and the same right to live on this 
planet.
There's no superior system of values, no superior race and no superior 
religion - all are good.
So if there's a war somewhere it is always a very sad history. There are 
only losers in every war. No winners. Lost lives count more than 
anything else. Doesn't matter on which side.
Who doesn't cry when reading the war news has lost sight of normality - 
perhaps because of being directly exposed to the fights. My point of 
view is a bit from a distance, but that's ok to oversee a bit more than 
"my side"'s position I think.

I consider war to be *always* the worst solution for a problem.
War should be avoided at all. It should be the last resort if there is 
an unsolvable problem.
But a lack of "freedom" somewhere in the world where the people have a 
different culture or different values cannot be an unsolvable problem - 
at least for countries far away.

Dropping atomic bombs is always a tragedy - doesn't matter if it was 
"neccessary" or not.
So I think that proudly kissing the aluminium of the airplane Enola Gay 
is simply stupid. Painfully remembering history is a different thing. 
And I think that's good.

Peace is always the best solution. The conditions for it are of 
secondary interest.

So, have a nice evening, sleep well and in peace.
I will stay on Greenkeys for now.

Best regards
und gute Nacht,
Philipp