[GreenKeys] Real RTTY

[Bob Camp]

Hi

That's a very good point. A computer pretty much does not care about 
the end of line. A mechanical gizmo cares a lot!

LTRS (optionally) first - re-syncs the data stream on the other end so 
you don't miss the CR/LF pair
CR next since the carriage takes at least two character times to move 
back to the start.
LF second - paper feeds fairly fast
LTRS - to let the slow carriages settle.
LTRS (optionally) for people with *very* slow carriages.

I was always told, but have no data what so ever that the Creed 
machines had slower carriages than the Teletypes. The whole idea of the 
second LTRS after the CR/LF was to let them catch up. I have never even 
seen a Creed, much less used one. It may just be a bunch of BS for all 
I know ...

	Take Care!

		Bob Camp
		KB8TQ


On Feb 26, 2005, at 11:38 AM, telegrapher at att.net wrote:

>
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Bob Camp <ham at cq.nu>
>
>> My biggest concern is that if somebody *is* using a computer to
>> generate a signal that they do it in a fashion that does not mess up a
>> mechanical machine. We simply do not have enough people out there 
>> doing
>> this to split the group into several more chunks.
>
> YES!  Like learning how to put/utilize  CR LF combination in their 
> glass machines!!!!!
>
> LARRY
> w0ogh
>
>
>
>
>> 	Take Care!
>>
>> 		Bob Camp
>> 		KB8TQ
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2005, at 10:41 PM, Roy Norris wrote:
>>
>>> I disagree.
>>>
>>> Teletype is an electromechanical means of communications that results
>>> in
>>> printed words on paper.  Radio Teletype is a means of passing signals
>>> between Teletype machines (which are all mechanical, by the way) 
>>> which
>>> makes use of radiated electromagnetic signals and subsequent 
>>> detection
>>> and demodulation for a substantial portion of the total signal path.
>>>
>>> What is done today with PC's, commonly called "computer RTTY" is a
>>> weird
>>> mixture of an older code intended for mechanical machines with
>>> something
>>> that basically is a word processor, the output of which is 
>>> transmitted
>>> over the radio. In its basic technology, there is no print on paper
>>> involved. (Although we can add that feature by converting Baudot code
>>> to
>>> Ascii and outputting that to a computer printer.  That folks, is not
>>> Teletype, radio or otherwise !!
>>>
>>>  The utter ridiculousness of "computer RTTY" has always amazed me.
>>> Here, we take a machine that talks in ASCII for all other purposes,
>>> convert it to Baudot, a five level code developed and optimized for a
>>> mechanical encoding and decoding device and transmit it over the 
>>> radio
>>> instead of the internet!!  I mean how crazy can you get !!!  If you
>>> want
>>> to use a computer to communicate, either use email or personal
>>> messaging
>>> or chat rooms, and the internet.  If you want to use a computer with
>>> radio as the interconnect means, use a modern, sophisticated error
>>> correcting code scheme such as Pator III or Clover over the radio.
>>> Whatever, it isn't Teletype.
>>>
>>> Radio Teletype uses Teletype MACHINES.
>>>
>>> Regards -- Roy Norris, K4EEG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lee Reynolds
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 7:42 PM
>>> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: [GreenKeys] Real RTTY
>>>
>>> Interesting to see Real RTTY versus Computer RTTY as terms being 
>>> used.
>>>
>>> Myself, I look on both means of mark/space generation as being a 
>>> means
>>> to
>>> an desired end. I do miss my old RTTY hardware ('20s/'30s vintage 
>>> Creed
>>> 3X,
>>> Creed 10 tape printer, old Olivetti TTY, Creed 75s and a model 15,
>>> various
>>> tape readers, perfs and winders) but conversely I don't miss the
>>> mechanical
>>> maintenance that went with 'em.
>>>
>>> Of course, warm oil and metal is a scent that computers just can't
>>> recreate. And the synchronized sound of a machine once it gets into 
>>> the
>>> groove and starts chugging out the old AP Caribbean HF news link.
>>>
>>> Thinking about it, though, I do recall that one of the things that 
>>> most
>>> of
>>> the RTTY types (myself included) were always on the lookout for was
>>> more
>>>
>>> modern machines to replace the older devices we used. The Creed 444,
>>> for
>>>
>>> example, was a highly desirable item because of its functionality and
>>> form
>>> factor. Then I started building a glass TTY interface in the late
>>> seventies
>>> as being a really whizzbang device. And then there were the solid 
>>> state
>>> speed controls for motors, regenerative repeaters for signals, 
>>> etc....
>>>
>>> Thing is, we were reaching (although we didn't know it) for exactly 
>>> the
>>> kind of RTTY generation means that exist today, courtesy of the PC.
>>> Your
>>>
>>> average PC/sound card combo can do RTTY stuff that people only dreamt
>>> of
>>>
>>> thirty years ago.
>>>
>>> RTTY's RTTY, regardless of how you generate it, I think. It's what we
>>> choose to generate the signal that differs, is all. If that perfect 
>>> 14,
>>> or
>>> 15, 19 set or Mini-Mite ever shows up, I'll happily hang it off the
>>> ST-6000
>>> and let rip...
>>>
>>> But MMTTY and MixW sure do a good job, too.
>>>
>>>        Lee
>>>
>>>
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>>
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