[GreenKeys] Formats

Tue May 11 22:22:02 EDT 2004

Hmmm...   Your logic sounds right.  It's been a while since I worked on this.

I know for certain the CR CR LF convention was extremely common.

Something sticks in my memory that there was mechanical something that could be used to force a machine to turn up the platen when
the typebox approached the left margin... but didn't do it if the typebox was already at the left margin?  This was not part of the
stuntbox -- it was elsewhere in the machine, maybe on the front right.

Maybe someone else has better memory, or the real manuals at hand.

-- Eric K3NA

-----Original Message-----
From: wa2hwj at att.net [mailto:wa2hwj at att.net]
Sent: 2004 May 10 17:28
To: eric at k3na.org
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] Formats

Eric,
Logically, you want your machine to LF if it gets a false CR, not the other way around. Or. you might want to put an LF in the CR
slot and a CR in the LF slot and let them both operate at the same time. If I remember right, the 28 has a two-slot-wide trip arm
for each of those functions.
Jack WA2HWJ

>    Your Kleinschmidt is very unusual, or incorrectly set up.
>
>    Machines with non-overline functions are normally set up to do a CR whenever
> a LF is received... not a LF whenever a CR is
> received.
>
>    The transmission of two CRs is a long-standing convention to ensure the
> return to the start of a line, even if one CR gets
> garbled.
>
> -- Eric K3NA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of wa2hwj at att.net
> Sent: 2004 May 10 10:12
> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [GreenKeys] Formats
>
>
> ZCZC
>
> Some TTY's have non-overline that line feeds on a CR. One of my
> Kleinschmidts line feeds at every CR, so everything comes out
> double-spaced (such as when I use Heavymetal). It makes more sense
> to use LTRS as a buffer instead of several CR's.
>
> Jack WA2HWJ
>
> NNNN
>
>
> >    A few minor comments:
> >
> > 1.  It is perfectly acceptable to end a line with:
> >     CR CR LF FIGS FIGS
> > The key point is to send, two times, the shift character needed to place the
> > machine in the proper case for the first printing
> > character in the line.
> >
> > 2.  The "traditional" end of message sequence placed the machine in letters
> case
> > before sending the sequence of LF and N characters,
> > so that a case shift character was not needed before the Ns.  In the
> historical
> > sense, the end of message was thus:
> >    (place machine in letters case, if not already there)
> >    CR CR LF LF LF LF NNNN and 12 LTRS
> > Some systems used eight LF to get the last message up to the point where it
> > could be immediately town off.  The 12 letters were used
> > the form about an inch of paper tape that could be immediately ripped from the
> > reperforator; it also made it very easy to identify
> > the separation between messages on a paper tape visually.
> >
> > 3.  We may wish to decide if we want transmissions to be "friendly" for
> machines
> > with unshift-on-space (UOS).
> >    a)  If friendly towards UOS, then one must send a FIGS before every word
> that
> > begins with a figures case character.
> >    b)  If UOS is not employed on the network, then one should be strongly
> > encouraged to send two FIGS when shifting into figures
> > case, and two LTRS when shifting into letters case.  While by no means
> > foolproof, this improves the chances of ending in the proper
> > case.  (It was required procedure on many US/NATO military radio circuits.)
> >    c)  It is not unreasonable to combine both (a) and (b); i.e., use double
> > shift characters whenever they are required, and send
> > FIGS FIGS before every word that starts with a figures case character.
> >
> > 4.  Start of transmission: 12 LTRS is sufficient for a minimum sequence to
> power
> > up receiving machines.
> >
> > 5.  Do we want to encourage people to start using the start of message
> sequence
> > discussed earlier?  That was twelve LTRS five SP two
> > CR LF and then two LTRS/FIGS?  It's a good habit to form early if we are going
> > to employ the selective calling procedures.
> >
> > 6.  Should our "welcome message" summarize the selective calling procedures?
> > Here is a suggestion:
> > SOME STATIONS ON THIS NET IMPLEMENT SELECTIVE CALLING PROCEDURES.  FOR
> > COMPATIBILITY, TRANSMISSIONS OF THE FOLLOWING FORMAT ARE
> > STRONGLY ENCOURAGED:
> >
> >    12 (LTRS)  5 (SP)  CR CR LF AND EITHER 2 LTRS OR FIGS AS APPROPRIATE
> >    (SELECTIVE CALLING SEQUENCE - SEE BELOW)  CR CR LF
> >    TEXT OF MESSAGE, ENDING IN LETTERS CASE.
> >    CR CR  4 (LF)  NNNN  12 (LTRS)
> >
> > THE SELECTIVE CALLING SEQUENCE IS ONE OR MORE STATION SELECTION CODES
> SEPARATED
> > BY SPACES, FOLLOWED BY "DE" AND YOUR FULL CALLSIGN.
> > THE STATION SELECTION CODE IS THE LAST FOUR CHARACTERS OF THE CALLSIGN OF THE
> > DESIRED RECEIPIENT.  FOR EXAMPLE, TO SEND A MESSAGE TO
> > THIS STATION FROM K3NA, THE MESSAGE WOULD BEGIN:
> >
> >    12 (LTRS)  5 (SP)  CR CR LF  2 (FIGS)
> >    4EEG DE K3NA  CR CR LF
> >    -- TEXT OF MESSAGE --
> >    CR CR  4 (LF)  NNNN  12 (LTRS)
> >
> > TO SEND A MESSAGE TO ALL STATIONS, USE ZCZC AS THE STATION SELECTION CODE:
> >
> >    12 (LTRS)  5 (SP)  CR CR LF  2 (FIGS)
> >    ZCZC DE K4EEG  CR CR LF
> >    -- TEXT OF MESSAGE --
> >    CR CR  4 (LF)  NNNN  12 (LTRS)
> >
> > I hope this helps.
> >
> >    -- Eric K3NA
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roy Norris [mailto:Rnorris at charter.net]
> > Sent: 2004 May 8 23:42
> > To: William N. Carver; Bill Henry; Bob Camp; David Ross; Don and Diana
> > Cunningham; Don Robert House; Eric Scace K3NA; Frederick A
> > Sell; Gary Chatters; George B. Hutchison w7tty; Gerry Block; gil smith;
> > greenkeys at mailman.qth.net; hsvham; Jack Hart; JerryL;
> > jhaynes at alumni.uark.edu; John Burch; John Lawson; John Parker-KE4GR; Marvin
> > Collins W6OQI; Richard Gillingham; Robert Downs; Stan
> > Wilson; telegrapher at att.net; Tom Elmore; tony j. podrasky
> > Subject: STatus of HoffNet on 10.137300 (mark)/10.137130 (space)
> >
> > [...snip...]
> >
> > ALL STATIONS, REGARDLESS OF TYPE OF EQUIPMENT ARE WELCOME.
> > THIS NET ENCOURAGES AND PROMOTES THE USE OF MECHANICAL
> > TELETYPE EQUIPMENT. TO ACCOMODATE TELETYPE MACHINES OF
> > VARRIOUS VINTAGE, ALL PARTICIPANTS ARE REQUESTED TO END
> > EACH LINE OF TRANSMITTED TEXT WITH THE SEQUENCE:
> >
> >          (CR)(CR)(LF)(LTRS)(LTRS)
> >
> > ALL TRANSMISSIONS SHOULD BEGIN WITH:
> >
> >       20 (LTRS) CHARACTERS (CR)(CR)(LF)(LTRS)(LTRS)
> >
> > AND ALL TRANSMISSIONS SHOULD END WITH:
> >
> >     (CR)(CR)(LF)(LF)(LTRS)(LTRS) NNNN
> >
> > [...snip...]
> >
> >
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