[GCARC] Where should KC2IEB put HF wire antennas?

Fri Nov 6 19:51:42 EST 2020

Chris,

OK, that's a good start.  How high are the ends of the dipole off the
ground?  You can make the dipole longer by hanging a wire off each end with
a small weight or tied to a ground stake.  8 feet of wire on each end of
that 50 foot dipole will easily tune up on 40 meters.

I am not sure if that AH-4 will have enough tuning range, but it may.  I am
just not familiar with it.  I have not done much with loops, but like any
other antenna, they work well if you can get them up high enough, and not
as well down near the ground.  I still say if you can get the feed point of
the dipole up over the house, you could use the entire depth of your lot,
even diagonally like I did.  You might be surprised how long of a dipole
you can fit this way.

Tony K3TS

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 5:48 PM Christopher Wawak <chris at wawak.org> wrote:

> So - first, thanks for the advice.  I put up the longest dipole I could
> going from my deck back to the edge of my property and ... at roughly 50'
> long, it's a fine 30m dipole. Juuust missed 40. I’d guess it’s 25-30 feet
> up. SWR is higher than 3 under 30m, but never over 5 if the analyzer is to
> be trusted. If I tell the 7300 to go into "emergency tuner mode", I can
> tune and get out with no weirdness in the radio (temperature increase,
> voltage weirdness, explosion).
>
> My plan for tomorrow morning is to set up the ICOM AH-4 tuner I picked up
> a long time ago, and see if tuning closer to the antenna makes a difference.
>
> I can't tell yet if the end fed or dipole is getting out better, I'll keep
> everyone posted!
>
> Is it possible zigzag the dipole, maybe between the tree in the center of
> the yard? What about trying to make some sort of loop instead? I think can
> get a lot more wire up with a loop!
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 5:05 PM Tony Starr <tstarr1450 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> An end fed wire is good for backpacking and other light portable
>> operation, but the best wire antennas for fixed station use are the
>> center-fed dipole types, and there are many variations of those. Some of
>> these will work on all or most of the HF bands, such as the G5RV or ZS6BKW
>> style of doublets. With a good tuner, any doublet style antenna that is cut
>> for the longest band that you plan to operate will likely tune up on all or
>> most of the bands that are higher than that. In your case, a 90 foot wire
>> (45 each side of center) will tune up well on 60 meters, and should work
>> well enough on the bands above that in frequency. The two keys to this
>> approach are feeding the antenna with ladder line and using a tuner with a
>> balun and enough matching range to get you close to 50 ohms. I wrote a
>> comprehensive article on antenna tuners some time back that was published
>> in Crosstalk, but you can find it easily on our club website under The
>> Elmer's Shack section, along with lots of other useful articles of interest
>> to the newer operator.
>>
>> As far as how to fit a wire antenna to your lot, I will share with you
>> how I fit a full size 80 meter dipole on my 80 x 115 foot lot. We are
>> talking about an antenna that is 130 feet long. It runs diagonally from
>> from to back, which is the only way it would fit. One high support in the
>> center is all that is needed. Mine happens to be a tower, but a telescopic
>> pole, roof tripod, or tree branch will work just as well. The rear support
>> is a 2x4 that is lashed to a fencepost in the far corner of the back yard,
>> and the front support is a utility pole located near the curb on the
>> opposite corner of the property. A length of 1/8 dacron line tied to the
>> pole supports that end. It is tied high enough to be out of reach, but well
>> below any electric wires. The center feed line, which happens to be RG-8x
>> coax in my case, comes straight down and goes through the wall into the
>> shack.  I actually have a second dipole, cut for 40 meters, attached to the
>> same feed point. With the wires arranged at right angles, there is no
>> interaction between bands. This antenna also works well on 15 meters, as a
>> bonus. A few years ago, I made a 40/20 meter version of this antenna for
>> Field Day, when I was operating a solo effort. It also worked well on 15m.
>>
>> Always remember this, there is no one antenna that does it all, and does
>> it well. With a little luck, and some research, you should be able to put
>> up an antenna that works better than the last one, but not quite as well as
>> the next one. As you learn more about antennas, you should be able to
>> figure out what that "next one" might be. In the meantime, if you have a
>> question, just ask. There are a number of us in the club who will likely
>> know the answer from prior experience.
>>
>> Tony K3TS
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 1:10 PM w2mmdgcarc <w2mmdgcarc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Christopher Wawak [mailto:chris at wawak.org]
>>> Sent: November 05, 2020 11:49
>>> To: w2mmdgcarc
>>> Subject: Where should KC2IEB put HF wire antennas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all! I'm beginning to wonder if my end fed wire antenna is not the
>>> best use of the space in my backyard .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm unable to make most SSB QSOs, and in general I just think I can do
>>> better. I've got a good ground near the entry to the shack, and I've got 5
>>> or 6 counterpoises laid down sort of randomly around the area connected to
>>> the ground lug on the 9:1 unun. Weak FT8 connections are great, but SSB
>>> phone is just downright difficult. Unless I'm doing something really wrong,
>>> I'm open to changing this entirely.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I'm really, really overwhelmed with the options I have.
>>> I'd like to find one wire antenna that would fit in the confines of my
>>> yard, and allow me to operate on 60/40/20/17/15/10, with a tuner is fine.
>>> Not super excited about 75/80, at least for now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Location:
>>> https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9167718,-75.0496759,70m/data=!3m1!1e3
>>>
>>> (you can right click on the map and get distances if you like)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The lot is 70' wide. There's a couple trees, all spaced around 50ish
>>> feet apart. Don't worry, I've got drawings below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right now, the unun is about 6' high, and the wire runs from there to
>>> probably about 20-25' high. The wire itself is 84' long. I might be able to
>>> get it a few feet higher on both ends. I'm a little shy with the antenna
>>> launcher.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've thrown some pictures up on a link in case anyone is willing to take
>>> a few minutes to review.
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/a/VHmPKOn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll probably be on the club 2m or 70cm repeaters after 8:30 or 8:45 and
>>> would love to discuss this further, but appreciate any help on email or
>>> radio at all. Thank you!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Chris
>>>
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>>
>
> --
> -- Chris
> --
> -- Chris
>