From n9io at hotmail.com Mon Apr 27 14:12:59 2020 From: n9io at hotmail.com (Clay Melhorn) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:12:59 +0000 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test Message-ID: Is this reflector still working? de Clay N9IO Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Get Outlook for Android From skysho at comcast.net Mon Apr 27 14:56:08 2020 From: skysho at comcast.net (Bryant) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:56:08 -0700 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> It must, this is the first message I've seen since I joined the list. Bryant W7BDB -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Clay Melhorn Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 11:13 AM To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net Subject: [FoxHunt] Test Is this reflector still working? de Clay N9IO Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Get Outlook for Android ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From ecps92 at earthlink.net Mon Apr 27 15:14:18 2020 From: ecps92 at earthlink.net (~Bill) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:14:18 -0400 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> There has been NO Activity since May 2018 http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/foxhunt/ Bill - N1KUG Boston, Mass Cruise Ship Frequencies http://scanmaritime.com/ -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bryant Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:56 PM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test It must, this is the first message I've seen since I joined the list. Bryant W7BDB From skysho at comcast.net Mon Apr 27 15:34:26 2020 From: skysho at comcast.net (Bryant) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:34:26 -0700 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> Message-ID: Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: ~Bill Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:29 PM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test There has been NO Activity since May 2018 http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/foxhunt/ Bill - N1KUG Boston, Mass Cruise Ship Frequencies http://scanmaritime.com/ -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bryant Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:56 PM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test It must, this is the first message I've seen since I joined the list. Bryant W7BDB ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From mike at ka5cvh.com Mon Apr 27 15:55:54 2020 From: mike at ka5cvh.com (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0500 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Loud and clear ... yeah ... not much activity as of late. On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:13 PM Clay Melhorn wrote: > > Is this reflector still working? > de Clay N9IO > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Mike Urich KA5CVH http://ka5cvh.com STX ASEC - Training We may be Volunteers, But we're professional. From mike at ka5cvh.com Mon Apr 27 15:58:06 2020 From: mike at ka5cvh.com (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:58:06 -0500 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape measure yagi for VHF. -- Mike Urich KA5CVH http://ka5cvh.com STX ASEC - Training We may be Volunteers, But we're professional. From n2xdd at radiohackerz.com Mon Apr 27 16:34:45 2020 From: n2xdd at radiohackerz.com (Ed N2XDD) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:34:45 -0400 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: <1674559F-BB97-446D-A738-EEA68FBE487A@radiohackerz.com> In regards to the kerberos sdr unit, what are you using for antennas? Ed N2XDD On April 27, 2020 3:34:26 PM EDT, Bryant wrote: >Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I >spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a >hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > >Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >From: ~Bill >Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:29 PM >To: 'Radio Direction Finding' >Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > >There has been NO Activity since May 2018 >http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/foxhunt/ > > > >Bill - N1KUG >Boston, Mass >Cruise Ship Frequencies >http://scanmaritime.com/ > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net >[mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bryant >Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:56 PM >To: 'Radio Direction Finding' >Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > >It must, this is the first message I've seen since I joined the list. >Bryant >W7BDB > > >______________________________________________________________ >FoxHunt mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >______________________________________________________________ >FoxHunt mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From jelmorephotos at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 14:43:34 2020 From: jelmorephotos at gmail.com (Jim Elmore) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:43:34 -0400 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sure is !!!! Jim KC8FQY On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:13 PM Clay Melhorn wrote: > Is this reflector still working? > de Clay N9IO > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > From azrabb at me.com Mon Apr 27 17:12:45 2020 From: azrabb at me.com (Craig Rabb) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:12:45 -0500 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes. kF7OMR ?-Houston > On Apr 27, 2020, at 14:56, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > > ?Loud and clear ... yeah ... not much activity as of late. > >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:13 PM Clay Melhorn wrote: >> >> Is this reflector still working? >> de Clay N9IO >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> Get Outlook for Android >> ______________________________________________________________ >> FoxHunt mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > -- > Mike Urich KA5CVH > http://ka5cvh.com > > STX ASEC - Training > > We may be Volunteers, > But we're professional. > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From skysho at comcast.net Mon Apr 27 17:32:09 2020 From: skysho at comcast.net (Bryant) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:32:09 -0700 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <1674559F-BB97-446D-A738-EEA68FBE487A@radiohackerz.com> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> <1674559F-BB97-446D-A738-EEA68FBE487A@radiohackerz.com> Message-ID: As far as antennas I bought the package that came with the four mag mounts that included four telescoping antennas to forty inches and four stubby ones for higher bands. I also bought four 400-470 small sma mag mount antennas off eBay. I?ve only been out with it once and had trouble linking the tablet, the compass rose was showing where the signal was coming from fine but the mapping wasn?t working. I know what to do now?if I haven?t forgot its been a couple months now. ? When I made my first test I had power cords running everywhere and was a pain to set up. Now I have a power pack that will power the SDR and the Pi, hang on the rear door armrest and the antennas will go to the roof through a cracked open window. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Ed N2XDD Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:51 PM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test In regards to the kerberos sdr unit, what are you using for antennas? Ed N2XDD On April 27, 2020 3:34:26 PM EDT, Bryant wrote: >Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I >spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a >hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > >Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >From: ~Bill >Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:29 PM >To: 'Radio Direction Finding' >Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > >There has been NO Activity since May 2018 >http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/foxhunt/ > > > >Bill - N1KUG >Boston, Mass >Cruise Ship Frequencies >http://scanmaritime.com/ > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net >[mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bryant >Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:56 PM >To: 'Radio Direction Finding' >Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > >It must, this is the first message I've seen since I joined the list. >Bryant >W7BDB > > >______________________________________________________________ >FoxHunt mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >______________________________________________________________ >FoxHunt mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From x3301 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 28 07:31:43 2020 From: x3301 at hotmail.com (Tony) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:31:43 -0500 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: HI, We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. Tony AA9CC On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > >> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape > measure yagi for VHF. > From bernie at huntfamily.com Tue Apr 28 07:50:33 2020 From: bernie at huntfamily.com (Bernie Hunt) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:50:33 +0000 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test HI, We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. Tony AA9CC On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > >> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape > measure yagi for VHF. > ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From lmwatbullrun at runbox.com Tue Apr 28 00:27:37 2020 From: lmwatbullrun at runbox.com (Larry) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 04:27:37 +0000 Subject: [FoxHunt] FoxHunt Digest, Vol 83, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5EA7B0B9.2080203@runbox.com> Has anyone any experience with the Montreal pseudo doppler unit? Larry W8ANT On 04/27/2020 09:32 PM, foxhunt-request at mailman.qth.net wrote: > Send FoxHunt mailing list submissions to > foxhunt at mailman.qth.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > foxhunt-request at mailman.qth.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > foxhunt-owner at mailman.qth.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of FoxHunt digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Test (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich) > 2. Re: Test (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich) > 3. Re: Test (Ed N2XDD) > 4. Re: Test (Jim Elmore) > 5. Re: Test (Craig Rabb) > 6. Re: Test (Bryant) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:55:54 -0500 > From: "Mike (KA5CVH) Urich" > To: Radio Direction Finding > Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Loud and clear ... yeah ... not much activity as of late. > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:13 PM Clay Melhorn wrote: >> Is this reflector still working? >> de Clay N9IO >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> Get Outlook for Android >> ______________________________________________________________ >> FoxHunt mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > From pelican2 at silcom.com Tue Apr 28 10:39:45 2020 From: pelican2 at silcom.com (R. Simmons) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:39:45 -0700 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: <000101d61d6a$dcbc11a0$963434e0$@com> Integrating ( apparently ) random Doppler readings was done years ago : http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/PICODOPP.htm#WDP http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/WINDOPP_MORE.html =================== Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random". If the errors are caused by a low signal level ( i.e. "white noise" ) then it should work. =================== Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict. If you don't believe it, stop your car and notice that the signal "flutter" stops... Bob S. -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:51 AM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test HI, We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. Tony AA9CC On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > >> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape > measure yagi for VHF. > ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From bernie at huntfamily.com Tue Apr 28 11:05:33 2020 From: bernie at huntfamily.com (Bernie Hunt) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:05:33 +0000 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <000101d61d6a$dcbc11a0$963434e0$@com> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> <000101d61d6a$dcbc11a0$963434e0$@com> Message-ID: "Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random"." I disagree. There are both short term and long term reflections that impact the signal quality. (Note: I assuming mobile operation.) Short term are the buildings and such that are passing. These can be considered random unless you are driving the same route over and over again. Long term reflections would be near the transmitter causing multiple signal paths to your location. Signal integration should produce multiple possible target locations that could be resolved over time. "Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict." To my previous point, local reflections are random. I wonder if we have different definitions of random. To me random is uncontrolled and unpredictable. Are you possible considering a "normal" distribution vs truly random? I never saw a Pico Dopp in action so I can't comment directly. I can say that computing power is much stronger these days and can do more. For example your comment about flutter when stationary. The readings when stationary could easily be discounted in the calculations. One thing that is interesting about the SDR is that it doesn't have the traditional Doppler chop that keeps fixed units out of repeater sites. I wonder if this would lead to a more friendly unit to tower mount. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Simmons Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:40 AM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test Integrating ( apparently ) random Doppler readings was done years ago : http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/PICODOPP.htm#WDP http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/WINDOPP_MORE.html =================== Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random". If the errors are caused by a low signal level ( i.e. "white noise" ) then it should work. =================== Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict. If you don't believe it, stop your car and notice that the signal "flutter" stops... Bob S. -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:51 AM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test HI, We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. Tony AA9CC On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > >> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year >> I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape > measure yagi for VHF. > ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From pelican2 at silcom.com Tue Apr 28 13:38:12 2020 From: pelican2 at silcom.com (R. Simmons) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:38:12 -0700 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> <000101d61d6a$dcbc11a0$963434e0$@com> Message-ID: <000001d61d83$ca9daa60$5fd8ff20$@com> OK, well I'm not going to get involved in a discussion on this... it's a waste of time. The WinDopp display program does visual integration of DF bearings across a ( user defined ) time interval, to reveal "trends", just as you wanted. If your question was serious, you can read more about it on the web page I cited. The program is free, and accepts Agrelo format ( RS232 ) DF messages. Bob S. -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:06 AM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test "Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random"." I disagree. There are both short term and long term reflections that impact the signal quality. (Note: I assuming mobile operation.) Short term are the buildings and such that are passing. These can be considered random unless you are driving the same route over and over again. Long term reflections would be near the transmitter causing multiple signal paths to your location. Signal integration should produce multiple possible target locations that could be resolved over time. "Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict." To my previous point, local reflections are random. I wonder if we have different definitions of random. To me random is uncontrolled and unpredictable. Are you possible considering a "normal" distribution vs truly random? I never saw a Pico Dopp in action so I can't comment directly. I can say that computing power is much stronger these days and can do more. For example your comment about flutter when stationary. The readings when stationary could easily be discounted in the calculations. One thing that is interesting about the SDR is that it doesn't have the traditional Doppler chop that keeps fixed units out of repeater sites. I wonder if this would lead to a more friendly unit to tower mount. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Simmons Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:40 AM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test Integrating ( apparently ) random Doppler readings was done years ago : http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/PICODOPP.htm#WDP http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/WINDOPP_MORE.html =================== Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random". If the errors are caused by a low signal level ( i.e. "white noise" ) then it should work. =================== Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict. If you don't believe it, stop your car and notice that the signal "flutter" stops... Bob S. -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:51 AM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test HI, We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. Tony AA9CC On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > >> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year >> I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape > measure yagi for VHF. > ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From sweidner at embarqmail.com Tue Apr 28 13:56:17 2020 From: sweidner at embarqmail.com (Stephen Weidner) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:56:17 -0700 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2725F79D-F64E-43F4-AC57-39A87F2EB7BA@embarqmail.com> Yes Steve > On Apr 27, 2020, at 11:13, Clay Melhorn wrote: > > ?Is this reflector still working? > de Clay N9IO > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > Get Outlook for Android > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From bernie at huntfamily.com Tue Apr 28 14:07:13 2020 From: bernie at huntfamily.com (Bernie Hunt) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:07:13 +0000 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: <000001d61d83$ca9daa60$5fd8ff20$@com> References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> <000101d61d6a$dcbc11a0$963434e0$@com> <000001d61d83$ca9daa60$5fd8ff20$@com> Message-ID: " If your question was serious, you can read more about it on the web page I cited." What question? I didn't ask one, hahaha. I simply commented that the system had some positive advancements over the older systems. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Simmons Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 1:38 PM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test OK, well I'm not going to get involved in a discussion on this... it's a waste of time. The WinDopp display program does visual integration of DF bearings across a ( user defined ) time interval, to reveal "trends", just as you wanted. If your question was serious, you can read more about it on the web page I cited. The program is free, and accepts Agrelo format ( RS232 ) DF messages. Bob S. -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:06 AM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test "Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random"." I disagree. There are both short term and long term reflections that impact the signal quality. (Note: I assuming mobile operation.) Short term are the buildings and such that are passing. These can be considered random unless you are driving the same route over and over again. Long term reflections would be near the transmitter causing multiple signal paths to your location. Signal integration should produce multiple possible target locations that could be resolved over time. "Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict." To my previous point, local reflections are random. I wonder if we have different definitions of random. To me random is uncontrolled and unpredictable. Are you possible considering a "normal" distribution vs truly random? I never saw a Pico Dopp in action so I can't comment directly. I can say that computing power is much stronger these days and can do more. For example your comment about flutter when stationary. The readings when stationary could easily be discounted in the calculations. One thing that is interesting about the SDR is that it doesn't have the traditional Doppler chop that keeps fixed units out of repeater sites. I wonder if this would lead to a more friendly unit to tower mount. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Simmons Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:40 AM To: 'Radio Direction Finding' Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test Integrating ( apparently ) random Doppler readings was done years ago : http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/PICODOPP.htm#WDP http://www.silcom.com/~pelican2/PicoDopp/WINDOPP_MORE.html =================== Signal integration should only work if the errors are, themselves, "truly random". If the errors are caused by a low signal level ( i.e. "white noise" ) then it should work. =================== Reflections are not really "random", they are just "uncontrolled", and too complex to predict. If you don't believe it, stop your car and notice that the signal "flutter" stops... Bob S. -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:51 AM To: Radio Direction Finding Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. Bernie K2YO -----Original Message----- From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test HI, We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. Tony AA9CC On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: > >> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year >> I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? > I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape > measure yagi for VHF. > ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From x3301 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 28 19:46:54 2020 From: x3301 at hotmail.com (Tony) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:46:54 -0500 Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: Hi, That's what the switched capacitor filter does, integrates. A fast attack slow decay AGC will get the strong signal peaks when driving, are most likely to be the right direction, excluding buildings. Tony AA9CC On 4/28/20 6:50 AM, Bernie Hunt wrote: > There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. > > Bernie > K2YO > > -----Original Message----- > From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM > To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > > HI, > > We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. > > Tony > > AA9CC > > On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: >> >>> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt. Anybody else on this list using the device? >> I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape >> measure yagi for VHF. >> > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From n8pxw at yahoo.com Tue Apr 28 21:07:48 2020 From: n8pxw at yahoo.com (Jim Korenz) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 01:07:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [FoxHunt] Test In-Reply-To: References: <000301d61cc5$84b72b20$8e258160$@comcast.net> <105b01d61cc8$0d452300$27cf6900$@net> <20200427193443.B4C70149B5C0@mail.qsl.net> Message-ID: <88528177.1300709.1588122468962@mail.yahoo.com> Averaging does help to some extent, but putting the bearings in bins, and displayingthe bin with the most hits, does a lot better. It doesn't take much memory, just 16 or32 bins for the direction. Experience shows that mobile Doppler bearings are aboutplus/minus 5 deg, so you don't gain anything over 36 bearings.?? JimK N8PXW On Tuesday, April 28, 2020, 7:47:17 PM EDT, Tony wrote: Hi, That's what the switched capacitor filter does, integrates. A fast attack slow decay AGC will get the strong signal peaks when driving, are most likely to be the right direction, excluding buildings. Tony AA9CC On 4/28/20 6:50 AM, Bernie Hunt wrote: > There is one thing that makes it hopeful, by capturing the readings and storing them a trend may be found. I've always wondered if in those time when a Doppler seems random in its readings if there was a pattern hidden underneath the multipath. It will be interesting if the SDR DF can do that. It doesn't solve and age old problem of if you can't hear it you can't hunt it. > > Bernie > K2YO > > -----Original Message----- > From: foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:foxhunt-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:32 AM > To: foxhunt at mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [FoxHunt] Test > > HI, > > We are having foxhunts every weekend. Let us know how the SDR DF works, I suspect its like the old Doppler units. > > Tony > > AA9CC > > On 4/27/20 2:58 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:34 PM Bryant wrote: >> >>> Anybody have some good suggestions to get folks motivated?? Last year I spent the bucks on the Kerberos SDR and have yet to take it out on a hunt.? Anybody else on this list using the device? >> I have the sniffer ... http://www.foxhunt.com.au/ and a 3L tape >> measure yagi for VHF. >> > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > FoxHunt mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ FoxHunt mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/foxhunt Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:FoxHunt at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html