[FARC] Antenna Tuner

[Kirk Talbott]

Well Bob, W3ICF worked me through it with a step 1, do this, step 2, do 
this, approach and he got it working.  He'd already put the antenna analyzer 
on the antenna and through adjustment got 4 bands within acceptable SWR 
limits. From this he also knew there was nothing wrong with my antenna 
tuner, with the exception of operator error.  That must be why repeaters 
work so well, very little human interaction or intervention.  The technical 
guys just love to see guys like me coming, I'm entertainment.

Though working with the technical side of the hobby is fun for most, I do 
find it frustrating and getting more so.  I ask a question, I get referred 
to a technical publication. I open the book only to find paragraph after 
paragraph of Calculus equations illustrating some part of radio theory. Then 
you'd think after a three page Calculus derivation (which I would have no 
way in hell of understanding, but I read it anyway) there would be a solid 
answer. Make it this long and this high and out of this material and it will 
work. But no, you get "It depends," or "Try it," or "Cut this much off and 
test it again," or "It'll work in Texas, but not in Maryland."  Of course if 
the hobby were this cut and dried, it would be boring so the uncertainty and 
the rewards of success must be the draw.

What I'm finding is that I probably entered this hobby too late with too 
little and am trying to go too far too fast.  Learning new and esoteric 
things doesn't get easier at age 55, and by taking the Ham exams and passing 
with relative ease I underestimated the actual technical skills and 
background that are needed to get a station up and running.

Soldering? There were no test questions on the General exam about soldering. 
Yeah, the ARRL handbook describes how to put a connector on a coax cable and 
it reads easy. Sure, I can do that, piece of cake. With book in one hand and 
soldering iron in the other I set to work. The outcome was a mess with 
melted insulation and burned fingers as a bonus. I did learn a principle of 
Thermodynamics that day however, heat transfer.  I'm sure the term 
"Hamfisted" didn't come from Ham radio, but it sure applies to me and I'm 
confident in the following alliterative sentence:  No background, no skills, 
no station.  Can I get these skills, eventually, but not in 3 months. 
Please don't ask me to hammer nails or use power tools on Hamfest set up 
Saturday.

I've had a good lesson in what not to do in this hobby and fortunately it 
hasn't resulted in explosions, fires or electrocution....so far.  My wife 
has demanded that Phil (W3ICF) be present at all of my equipment or antenna 
installations.  Though he loves to do it, it places an undue burden on him 
and that ain't right.

KB3ONM
Kirk



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Moroney" <windbrkr at erols.com>
To: "Frederick, Maryland ARC" <farc at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [FARC] Antenna Tuner


> OK, Kirk, now it sounds more as though you're simply working through
> typical problems that often confront Hams, whether they're new, old or
> somewhere in between.   If your TS2K internal tuner can coexist happily
> with the vertical's input impedance, things are probably "OK", at the
> very least.   That's not to say that things couldn't be made better,
> but, if you can put a decent signal on the air, external to your abode
> and without driving all  of your and your neighbors' telephone and
> electronic equipment bonkers, consider it a major plus.
>
> As an aside, please keep in mind that ALL verticals are notoriously
> narrow band antennas by nature, and can be pretty damn finicky as to
> their "counterpoise" (ground screen) requirements as well.  And on top
> of that, their radiation patterns can be all over the map, depending on
> terrain, installation and counterpoise.  Again,  if you're getting a
> signal on the air in the bands you want, you probably want to count your
> blessings and be happy.
>
> I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing that your vertical antenna is
> happy that you rescued it from its overhead perch in Phil's garage, and
> has quite simply deigned to bless you with Good Propagation (within, of
> course, its design and installation limitations).
>
> Bottom line is, don't despair, don't get too frustrated, and within the
> bounds of safety and common sense (i.e., try not to fry your self or
> your gear), keep trying to tame the RF beast in YOUR particular
> operating environment.  Believe me, there's a lot of "magic" involved in
> operating an effective Ham Radio station in a residential area, but
> there's no "magic bullet" to solve the myriad of problems that can crop
> up, some even after you think you've run them all to ground, so to speak.
>
> If you poll the folks who have succeeded in doing this, you will
> probably find that words like "try", "experiment", "search",
> "persevere", "ask", "read" and any number of other "inquisitive" verbs
> crop up again and again.  Basically, that's the key to success, and as
> usual, the entryway to still more discoveries and knowledge.
>
> Gosh, that was inspiring!  But on the other hand, it is getting close to
> bedtime...
>
> 73, Bob K9CMR
> ====================
> Kirk Talbott wrote:
> > Bob,
> >
> > Yes, it's a cheap tuner.
> >
> > Yes I have the vertical antenna outside grounded (8 ft. ground rod) and 
> > the
> > ground wire connected to an MFJ window unit, but no the radio equipment
> > isn't ground connected to the window unit. Kind of a waste of time, huh. 
> > I
> > had every intention of running a ground strap to the window unit, but 
> > the
> > window unit is at one end of the room and the radio equipment at the
> > opposite end.  Computer desks, chairs, sewing machines, and bookshelves
> > necessitated that antenna leads and ground wires meander around or 
> > behind
> > furniture, meaning there would have been a very long ground strap (over 
> > 25
> > ft) from the equipment to the window unit.  From the ham books long 
> > ground
> > wires are a no no, so I didn't know quite what to do there.  Which is 
> > worse,
> > no ground or too long of a ground?  You get "burned" either way.
> >
> > Connectors are fully seated, tight, and brand new, though the antenna 
> > leads
> > are over 25 ft. long as described above.  I realize I'll have to 
> > rearrange
> > the room but I haven't gotten around to it yet.  It was only two months 
> > ago
> > that I had a 2 meter mobile unit for a radio and an 18" mag-mount 
> > antenna
> > sitting inside the room on top of a stainless-steel mixing bowl. 
> > Compared
> > to now, those were the good ole' days, happy in blessed ignorance.
> >
> > I figured out the SWR meter on the radio, with the help of W3ICF, so 
> > that is
> > actually ok now.
> >
> > Yes, the antenna is marginal, sort of.  It actually was an experiment 
> > from
> > W3ICF as he had this old antenna in his garage and never used it and he 
> > just
> > wanted to see how it would work.  The antenna is ground mounted on a 1 
> > ft.
> > pipe, but there are no RF ground radials; supposedly it didn't need any.
> > W3ICF put his antenna analyzer on it and got acceptable (barely) SWR on 
> > 40,
> > 20, 15, and 10 meters.  Using it with my Kenwood TS-2000 and its 
> > automatic
> > antenna tuner, it works fine on these bands.  "Works fine" is my term 
> > for
> > 1:1 or 1.5:1 SWR and making contacts in the North East, South East, Mid
> > West, and far western USA. I can hear plenty of DX international 
> > stations on
> > 20 meters, but due to traffic pileups and propagation haven't been able 
> > to
> > contact any.  So, does a radio and antenna work with no ground, long 
> > antenna
> > leads, and a marginal antenna? Sort of.  Would it work better if 
> > everything
> > in the shack was set up by the book? Absolutely.
> >
> > So, if the antenna and a radio with an automatic antenna tuner sort of
> > works, why did I purchase an antenna tuner?  Well, it all stemmed from
> > buying the wrong radio in the first place.  The Kenwood TS-2000 is too 
> > much
> > radio for a rookie ham operator like me.  Sure I can use it fine on 2 
> > meters
> > and 440, and on some HF bands, but I'll never, repeat never, be able to
> > realize the capabilities built into the Kenwood TS-2000.  There is so 
> > much
> > to learn and the manual so intimidating, it just isn't fun.  So, with 
> > this
> > in mind I bought a bare-bones Icom 718, which is a basic HF rig designed 
> > for
> > beginners. Since I wanted to experiment with dipole antennas I thought I
> > needed a manual antenna tuner, and there you have it.  I guess this
> > situation is analogous to a newly licensed driver getting a Ferrari for 
> > the
> > first car.  It just won't work.  I'll keep the Kenwood and learn bits 
> > and
> > pieces as I go and maybe if I live long enough the Kenwood TS-2000 will
> > actually appreciate in value, like a Ferrari.
> >
> > Thanks for the info and the help.
> >
> > KB3ONM
> > Kirk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Bob Moroney" <windbrkr at erols.com>
> > To: "Frederick, Maryland ARC" <farc at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 7:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [FARC] Antenna Tuner
> >
> >
> >
> >> Kirk,
> >>  From the sound of it, you could have a screwed-up tuner, you could 
> >> have
> >> a screwed-up antenna, you could have some station grounding problems,
> >> you could simply not be using the tuner quite as it's meant to be used,
> >> or you could have some combination of the above.
> >>
> >> Does that make you feel any better?  Probably not.
> >>
> >> Basically, you need to deal with one problem at a time, starting with
> >> the antenna and feedline.  If that system isn't behaving as it should,
> >> you might as well be beating your head against the wall.  Have you or
> >> anyone else put an antenna analyzer on the end of the coax that goes
> >> into your transceiver?   That alone will tell you a lot about your
> >> antenna and feedline; e.g., what its impedance is at various 
> >> frequencies
> >> and where it's naturally resonant.
> >>
> >> Is your station's grounding system solidly bonded to a real earth
> >> ground, and is all your station equipment solidly tied into that
> >> system?  An ohmmeter will help answer that question.
> >>
> >> Are all your coax connectors "good" and fully seated into one another?
> >> Another job for the ohmmeter, at least as a start.
> >>
> >> I didn't know it until today, but I too have one of these tuners; I 
> >> just
> >> never fully assimilated the make or model number.  To me it was simply
> >> the somewhat cheap manual tuner I bought maybe ten years ago from some
> >> mail order place (Radio Works?).  It's an OK tuner as far as it goes,
> >> but it's definitely nothing special.  I can't say that I've ever looked
> >> at the manual.  Although I bought this tuner ten or more years ago, I
> >> would doubt that the manual I have is any different or better than
> >> yours, so loaning you my manual probably won't help.
> >>
> >> On the tuner, one thing I would say right off the bat is that the knobs
> >> on the front panel (other than the "Output Select" knob) have no stops.
> >> As you suggest, they will turn forever.  So just picture what they do.
> >> Matter of fact, it wouldn't hurt to unscrew the cover from the tuner 
> >> and
> >> view what lies beneath to help you visualize.
> >>
> >> You'll see two variable capacitors and a coil.  The two variable caps,
> >> one "transmitter" and one "antenna" are just plates that twirl around,
> >> interleaving (or not) to various degrees, depending on how much they've
> >> been twirled, then start it all over again.  The "inductor" (coil) has
> >> taps off of it that are connected to the "inductor" switch.  You can
> >> turn this switch forever as well, but in reality you are just cycling
> >> through the same tap points over and over, adjusting the impedance of a
> >> capacitance/inductance bridge in various combinations until the antenna
> >> is "tuned".  Unfortunately, though, an antenna can't really be "tuned"
> >> without increasing or reducing the length of its radiating elements to
> >> match the frequency desired.
> >>
> >> So the idea of an "antenna tuner" is to achieve a reasonable impedance
> >> between whatever radiating contraption you hooked up to the "tuner" and
> >> the transmitter, so you don't wind up releasing the smoke from your
> >> transmitter's output transistors.  The transmitter finals are happiest
> >> when they sense a 50-ohm impedance on their output; thus you need to
> >> fiddle with the tuner controls until the radiating contraption
> >> (antenna)  "matches" what the finals want to see.  So you could view a
> >> tuner as a "pacifier" for your transmitter finals, more than anything
> >> else.   It may or may not really increase the power that winds up going
> >> to the antenna, but it will help to keep the transmitter output stage
> >> happy and smoke-free.
> >>
> >> Put the inductor switch into the position recommended by the "manual"
> >> for a given band, then tweak the transmitter and antenna variable
> >> capacitors within their range, until SWR is minimized.  Make sure 
> >> you've
> >> got the "Output Select" switch set to the "Tuned" segment so you're
> >> getting the correct meter readings, and make sure you've got the
> >> "Peak/Avg" push button "out", so that you're getting average readings
> >> instead of peaks that depend on your voice modulation.  Also, if you 
> >> can
> >> get your transmitter to key in CW mode, do that instead of using SSB,
> >> which as you note, various according to the volume of your voice.  I
> >> don't know your rig, so I don't have any suggestions there, other than
> >> plugging in a key.
> >>
> >> Well, I'm tired of typing, and I've got to make some cole slaw for
> >> supper, so hopefully all these words may help you a little.  Feel free
> >> to write or call if they don't, or whatever.
> >>
> >> 73, Bob K9CMR
> >> ======================
> >> Kirk Talbott wrote:
> >>
> >>> I recently bought a Vectronics VC300DLP antenna tuner and I am using 
> >>> it
> >>> with
> >>> an ICOM 718 transceiver. My antenna is a hy-gain model 18 AVT/WB-S
> >>> vertical.
> >>> I bought an antenna tuner based on a consensus of other experienced 
> >>> hams
> >>> that if I used the ICOM 718 I would probably need an antenna tuner
> >>> regardless of what antenna used.
> >>>
> >>> I am new to ham radio, HF, and antenna tuners in general and that is
> >>> mostly
> >>> the problem,   however I am having specific problems with the tuner 
> >>> and
> >>> am
> >>> ready to pitch it into the street!
> >>>
> >>> The instruction manual for the tuner is essentially useless due to 
> >>> many
> >>> typos and obvious errors in English translation.  I was able to divine
> >>> how
> >>> to hook it up to the transceiver and to set the defaults for the
> >>> transmitter, antenna, and inductance controls on the tuner for a
> >>> particular
> >>> band.  Since the labels on the tuner's controls didn't match the 
> >>> labels
> >>> in
> >>> the manual, it's a toss-up as to whether I had things set right from 
> >>> the
> >>> get-go.
> >>>
> >>> Now to transmitting.  Do I have it tuned?  Probably not.  Both the
> >>> forward
> >>> and reflected power needles dance back and forth wildly to the lows 
> >>> and
> >>> highs of my voice during SSB transmission, making it nearly impossible
> >>> to
> >>> read the SWR at the intersection of both needles. The tuner has a 
> >>> dummy
> >>> load
> >>> built-in which is convenient, but remember, there is no carrier in SSB
> >>> transmission, so you can't just hold the PTT switch down while you
> >>> simultaneously fiddle with the three tuner controls.
> >>>
> >>> Put the transceiver in FM or AM mode so you have a continuous carrier
> >>> you
> >>> say?  Nope, I tried that.  The transceiver has no FM, and using AM 
> >>> pegs
> >>> both
> >>> needles to their stops on the tuner with some erroneous indication.
> >>>
> >>> After much fumbling I was able to finally coordinate mike, talking, 
> >>> and
> >>> twiddling the controls but to no avail, adjusting the controls did
> >>> nothing
> >>> to change tuner meter needle indications.  As a matter of fact, the
> >>> controls
> >>> on this tuner will turn past their stops  infinitely, giving you what
> >>> tuner
> >>> setting as a result?  One ham said, "After you tune, write down the
> >>> settings."  So I would write down, 20 turns to the right past "6" on 
> >>> the
> >>> antenna knob?  Or 5 turns to the left past "1" on the transmitter 
> >>> knob?
> >>> This can't possibly be the way it works.
> >>>
> >>> Now, fortunately the transceiver has an SWR meter so I could use that
> >>> maybe
> >>> as an indicator of getting close to doing something right, and not 
> >>> burn
> >>> up a
> >>> transmitter in the process.  Nope again. The transceiver's SWR meter
> >>> varied
> >>> between 1:1 to 9:1 depending on the highs and lows of my voice during
> >>> transmission.  If I spoke softly, it would read 1:1 all the time. 
> >>> Raise
> >>> your voice, and it would peak out at 9:1 then drop back to 1:1.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone up for some antenna tuner 101?  Or better yet, would someone 
> >>> like
> >>> to
> >>> purchase an antenna tuner, cheap, that is before I reduce it to its
> >>> elemental parts with a sledgehammer? You don't have much time.
> >>>
> >>> Plodding along blind
> >>> KB3ONM
> >>> Kirk
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