[FADCA] RE: It's not about WL2K - It's about the future of Ham Radio

[K4CJX]

Point is, that Pactor 3 takes up 2.2 KHz (-24) and today, operates (example
on 40 meters = 5 total KHz allowed!) within a very small portion of the
band. Secondly, Skip Teller was outvoted on the ARRL ad-hoc digital
committee 3 years ago and he has not gotten over it. I was also on that
committee. He was the only vote that did not favor expanding the "radio art"
per 97.1. If there is no space to further develop digital communications
(not just Winlink, of course) then there will be no incentive and we will be
stuck in the same mold while the rest of the world becomes either "wired or
wireless." A good way to insure that we will be taken over by other
interests.

Steve, k4cjx


-----Original Message-----
From: bud Thompson [mailto:budt at cfl.rr.com] 
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 16:55
To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
Cc: Steve K4CJX; DICK K4FUY SEM CO EC
Subject: It's not about WL2K - It's about the future of Ham Radio


Subject changes from "Robots everywhere soon"

---- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Calder" <n4zkf at n4zkf.com>
To: "'bud thompson'" <budt at cfl.rr.com>; "'Florida Amateur Digital 
Communication Association'" <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 15:51
Subject: RE: [FADCA] Robots everywhere soon


> Here you go.
>
> ARRL wants to let Email Robots cover the phone bands.
>
> In the ARRL "bandwidth" petition, RM-11306, Pactor-III Email robots, 
> 2.4
> KHz
> wide (requiring a channel width of 2.5 KHz), are allowed everywhere phone 
> is
> allowed, which is 14100 to 14350 KHz.
>
> The current practice of Winlink 2000 is to scan two channels by each 
> fully automatic Pactor-II station when they are allowed to operate 
> anywhere in the RTTY/Data/CW areas of the bands. THIS IS DONE SO THE 
> MOBILE STATIONS DO NOT
> HAVE TO WAIT AS LONG AS 4 MINUTES FOR A FREQUENCY THAT IS BEING USED BY
> ANOTHER EMAIL ROBOT, so then they can go to another frequency, where there
> is no Email robot, even if there is a CW or SSB already station there, and
> cause an Email robot to just take over the frequency.
>
> If a single Pactor-III Email robot requires a 2.5 KHz channel, then a
> fully
> automatic Email robot scanning two channels will use 5 kHz.
>
> There are currently 25 Winlink Email robots in the US and another 25 
> overseas, some of which can still interfere with communications in the 
> US. There are another, perhaps 25, Email Robots assigned for Emcomm 
> use by Winlink.
>
> Assuming an average of 40 Winlink Email robots can be heard worldwide 
> on
> 20
> meters, and each one automatically scans only two frequencies, then 40 
> Email
> robots will take up 40 x 5 = 200 kHz of the 20 meter phone band, which is
> 80% of the phone band!
>
> ARRL claims that the operator triggering the Email robot to transmit 
> will not allow it to transmit on a busy frequency, but of course, it 
> may not hear stations in QSO local to the robot but remote to itself, 
> so the Email robot
> can just wipe out the local QSO, as is so often the practice now for CW 
> and
> PSK31 QSO's, AND WILL BECOME A REALITY FOR PHONE OPERATORS IF RM-11306 is
> adopted.
>
> If you think that sacrificing 80% of the 20 meter phone band to be 
> used
> for
> Email messaging for Winlink's less than 1% of the US ham population is a
> good idea, you do not need to do anything.
>
> IF YOU THINK THAT EMAIL ROBOTS SHOULD BE CONFINED TO A SEPARATE SPACE 
> ON
> THE
> BANDS, THEN YOU NEED TO FILE COMMENTS TO THE FCC AND LET THEM KNOW YOUR
> POSITION!
>
> It is as easy as 1-2-3-4 to file a comment!
>
> 1. Go to: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi
>
> 2. Fill in RM-11306 (in all caps) where it says "1. Proceeding"
>
> 3. Fill in the rest of the spaces with your name and address where
> indicated
>
>
> 4. Type a brief comment to the FCC where it says "Send a Brief Comment 
> to FCC (typed-in)
>
> Please make an effort to file a comment on RM-11306 before February 5!
>
> 73, Skip KH6TY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
> On Behalf Of bud thompson
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 3:36 PM
> To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
> Subject: Re: [FADCA] Robots everywhere soon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Calder" <n4zkf at n4zkf.com>
> To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'" 
> <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 15:29
> Subject: [FADCA] Robots everywhere soon
>
>
>>
>> This pretty much sums it up.
>>
>> http://www.idiyachts.com/RadioEmail.html
>>
>>
>> Dave
>> N4zkf
>
> * * *
>
> What's a Robot?
>
> bud N0IA
>

Aww, Dave - you've been bamboozled by Skip Teller!

Or did you forward this to FADCA as a joke?

 The shame of it is that Skip knows better - but he has let his personal 
agenda get in the way of what could be a good thing for ham radio.  He has 
been on this anti-WL2K vendetta for almost two years- heavily for a year - 
and has convinced a lot otherwise uninformed folks that WL2K is bad.  This 
is the real bad part - Skip - nearly single handedly has made the ARRL band 
plan by bandwidth proposal about WL2K - when it should be about the future 
of ham radio.

I'm really surprised you didn't check out more on details before forwarding 
that inflammatory e-mail Skip has been sending around... Also hacks me off 
I must take time to respond here!  But . . .

I can't  assume it is a joke - pardon me if it was - and you owe me!

But here goes -

> ARRL wants to let Email Robots cover the phone bands.

Right - wouldn't that be a mess!  Who would believe that statement, much 
less take action on it?  Well, some uninformed folks who would not know 
better. It's politics - need I say more?

> The current practice of Winlink 2000 is to scan two channels by each 
> fully automatic Pactor-II station when they are allowed to operate 
> anywhere in the RTTY/Data/CW areas of the bands.

> If a single Pactor-III Email robot requires a 2.5 KHz channel, then a
> fully
> automatic Email robot scanning two channels will use 5 kHz.

There is no correlation to the number of scanned frequencies and the 
bandwidth a Pactor station uses - it is only 2.4 KHz for Pactor III and 
under 500 Hz for Pactor 1 or 2  - one frequency at a time.  Skip knows that!

Actually my WL2K PMBO scans seven HF frequencies total (on 80, 40, 30, 25, 
17, and 15M), but only six on four bands at a time  - dropping 80 m in 
daytime and dropping 15 at night. Pactor stations can only operate on one 
frequency at a time.  I know Skip knows that.  However, his terminology 
would have the inexperienced masses think that a single Pactor station 
occupies 5Khz - that's not legal - viz- WL2K is doing something bad - let's 
all get on board and call the FCC!

'Fully automatic' conjures two stations under computer control contacting 
each other w/o a control operator on either end.  I'm not sure there is 
anything in the FCC Part 97 Rules that cover 'fully' automatic - perhaps 
there is but I believe 'Automatically controlled digital station' what is 
covered.  Again,
Skip knows that, but this is just more of his misrepresenting  terminology 
to conjure up bad stuff, eh?

WL2K PMBOs do not operate 'fully automatic'  - So far as I know the only 
"fully automatic" operation is packet BBS to BBS forwarding which is allowed

above 50Mhz.  I'm not sure if there is an HF packet network autoforwarding 
on HF still - but you would know.

The WL2K PMBOs NEVER call each other - there is no BBS-to-BBS forwarding by 
WL2K PMBOs - The WL2K operation is classified under 'local or remote 
control' in Part 97.211.(c) (1) (below) and it is the calling station 
(Skip's  "MOBILE STATIONS") that must be under local or remote control. Here

is how the pertinent section reads as clarified/modified by the FCC in 1995:

 97.221 Automatically controlled digital station.

    (a) This rule section does not apply to an auxiliary station, a beacon 
station, a repeater station, an earth station, a space station, or a space 
telecommand station.

    (b) A station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY 
or data emission on the 6 m or shorter wavelength bands, and on the
  a.. 28.120    -    28.189 MHz

  b.. 24.925    -    24.930 MHz

  c.. 21.090    -    21.100 MHz

  d.. 18.105    -    18.110 MHz

  e.. 14.0950  -    14.0995 MHz

  f.. 14.1005  -    14.112 MHz

  g.. 10.140    -    10.150 MHz

  h..   7.100    -       7.105 MHz or

  i..   3.620    -       3.635 MHz segments.

    (c) A station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY 
or data emission on any other frequency authorized for such emission types 
provided that:

        (1) The station is responding to interrogation by a station under 
local or remote control; and

        (2) No transmission from the automatically controlled station 
occupies a bandwidth of more than 500 Hz.


Hence, my original question: What is a Robot?

There are none.  Sorry, Skip.

The rest of Skip's note is just as inflammatory as the garbage he's been 
promulgating on QRZ  blog for two years.   The real bad news is he has other

folks worked up who have not taken time to really check all this stuff out -

Skip knows better - he really does understand how WL2K works - but he has a 
personal agenda (from his position on an ARRL committee several years ago 
that did not go well for him) that transcends getting anything accomplished 
to advance the state of the art.  And this from the co-inventor of DigiPan- 
one of the marvels of our day!

> It is as easy as 1-2-3-4 to file a comment!

Now that is about the only factual statement he made!

Do it - everyone - Take a break before the Super Bowl!

I will be taking Skip's  advice and submitting my comments late today or 
tomorrow before the Feb 6th. deadline.  I hope everyone does - but that they

do so as an informed decision, not passing on some BS from someone else.

It's really too bad that this has come to a head on Super Bowl weekend- sure

glad I'm not a football fan.

73,

bud N0IA
386 574 4124
386 956 0386 Sprint Cell