[FADCA] Use of ESATCOM for TCP/IP
bud thompson
budt at cfl.rr.com
Wed Jul 28 19:37:51 EDT 2004
Deltona
Wednesday July 28 1910E
NOTE: "BBS to BBS forwarding" has recently taken on a more generic
connotation. This means one computer-based digital ham station
sending/receiving messages with a similar station in an organized
protocol/fashion. This may be over the air or via the internet, typically
Telnet, or via a data port on the state wide ESATCOM system. It does not
specifically infer the type of software in use for the BBS (i.e. FBB, AA4RE,
MSYS, Winpack,WA7MBL, W0RLI, etc.), but does infer compatible end-to-end
protocol. The new ARESCOM/WL2K model 32-bit forwarding compression supports
attachments to e-mail and binary file transfers, and is not compatible with
the older DOS-based or 16-bit Windows-based BBS software programs. None of
the existing BBS programs has been upgraded in years.
BBS to BBS forwarding is the most efficient method of transferring digital
messages over existing ham radio networks. It also offers a high degree of
'security' from casual monitoring on the frequencies being used, a topic of
much interest for Home Land Security for served agencies who are accustomed
to depending on open (in the clear) ham radio voice networks.
* * * *
Doug -
Thanks for making the inquiry to John Fleming - but Opps...
You did not stir the hornet's nest - just disturbed it a tad! The nest was
stirred last week after the ARRL BOD Board Meeting Minutes came out and I
sent an e-mail to the three Section Managers in Florida soliciting support
for the ARESCOM/WL2K system and for a grant proposal for upgrading the
Florida Layered Packet Network to support it.
Your inquiry to John Fleming (and his response) is extremely timely - can't
say good or bad - just timely.
First, Everyone take note! We must not be pulled into quick conclusions or
inappropriate actions (i.e. responses that are not aimed specifically at
problem solving.)
There is much going on in the NFL ARRL Section in response to the recent
ARRL BOD Directive (Minute 21) to investigate and (likely) ultimately adopt
Digital Messaging in Support of EMCOMMs using the ARESCOM recommended
Winlink 2000 (WL2K) model. This is intended to be an additional tool that
ARES groups can offer served agencies during emergencies. It is not
intended to replace any existing tools. My guess is that some Section and
local ARES folks have assumed this is a replacement for something presently
in existence. Not so.
Rudy WA4PUP, Section Manager of the NFL section has since informed the NFL
Section Staff that this will not affect the Gateway System nor the NFL
Emergency Plan. Apparently the Gateway system is all that is needed to
support EMCOMMs in the Section (and maybe the state.) I believe he reported
there has never been any need for more than short messages; thus e-mail
messaging would not be needed.
Since the Gateway System supports the State EOC directly through the
Tallahassee Gateway, there has been much cooperation there over the years by
John Fleming. This has been the historical way of getting Ham-generated
messages from anyplace in the state to the State Warning Point. It is
voice-based messaging; local net to district net to state net to Tallahassee
Gateway - or something like that. This is the NTS-based modus operandi of
the 1960s-70s which works okay for the intended purpose - getting a short
message (less than 25-30 words or so) to the State EOC Early Warning Point
(and hoping there have been no errors in oral/manual transcription.)
What is generally missing in N FL (I can't speak of other Sections) is much
direction from Section Leadership for local ARES groups providing their
local served agencies with record traffic using anything but such short
messages (typically voice), nominally in NTS format. Recent experience is
that when a served agency rep realizes that this is only a short Western
Union like note, the rep loses interest in ham radio support. (If a rep is
under 50 he/she has never experienced a 'Telegram'!) When called out,
his/her folks all bring laptops to incident command, EOC, or shelters and ex
pect to do more than play solitaire. I have yet to have a served agency rep
not show a lot of interest when he/she realized that standard e-mail from
their laptops may be kept working from shelters, their office, Incident
Command, mobile Comms unit, EOC etc., WITHOUT THE INTERNET. This gets a lot
of attention. This is catching on in many other states, TN, TX, MI, CA, WA,
VA to name only the few that come to mind. It appears that Florida, the
home of the model, may not be so quick to look into the new idea; at least
not the NFL ARRL Section. It is therefore, understanding that since the
State EOC/Warning Point is in the N FL Section it is thus isolated from the
new system.
It is too soon to tell how much such resistance to change there may be
elsewhere in the ARRL / ARES Field Organization throughout the country.
Frankly, it would not surprise me if there were other similar pockets of
politic/control-based opposition, hams being human, as we are.
What does this have to do with the Florida State EOC Warning Point?
Probably nothing, since all the State Warning Point would have to do to take
advantage of the new system is read its e-mail during events so long as the
State Warning Point has an Internet connection for e-mail. In fact I have
included John Fleming's e-mail address during many demonstrations and not
one has ever bounced, nor answered. If John Fleming were interested in
receiving detailed accurate information in a timely manner during an event
all he would have to do is open his e-mail. Based on his specific response
regarding the WL2K system, it would be easy to assume that John is not
interested in efficiency, nor checking that out. Let's face it- the state
has $$$$ in backup, backup and more backup - why would John need to spend
much effort with the "last resort" -Ham Radio? ( It is something we Hams,
who otherwise are well intentioned, do not 'get'.)
If the internet connection at the State Warning Point would be lost,
(really?) then to participate it would need a Paclink setup on the
Tallahassee LAN (or a similar HF set up). To date there is no Tallahassee
LAN on the Florida Layered Packet network - and since the SEDAN packet
network that does have entrée to the State Warning Point cannot be used for
"BBS to BBS" forwarding, Ham Radio Digital comms with the State EOC is
relegated to point-to-point keyboarding with a live person at each end. This
is circa late 1980s technology.
It is a shame that John Fleming has not reviewed the ARESCOM/WL2K E-mail
over ham radio system more closely as he would realize there is more to it
than HF or keyboarding between two points over a packet network. His
comments, while certainly his to own, do not reflect the reality of the
situation, much less the state of the Amateur art. Perhaps a close friend
might counsel him to make time to study some of the pertinent information
or attend a presentation and demo at a club meeting. I can't imagine after
that he would be anything but embarrassed at the response he made to this
inquiry. As an Amateur Radio Operator and a taxpayer I am embarrassed that
John, a state employee and active ham since 1951 would be so loose in his
judgments w/o checking out the facts.
For a while I suggest we remain calm and cool - The ARRL is presently in a
bit of a uncertainty over the general application of Public Service by the
Amateur Radio Service. ARES and NTS are in the middle of this. It is too
early to tell just where this will all go. Meanwhile we need to keep on
refurbishing the Florida Layered Network and promoting ARES groups to
consider Digital Messaging in Support of EMCOMMs as an additional tool in
their kit bags.
My advice- Cool it.
That said, I'm pleased that John is open to tying to get more EOCs on the
data port of the ESATCOM system. Let's pursue that and see how it flies.
73,
bud Thompson, N0IA
386 574 4124
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Christ" <kn4yt at yahoo.com>
To: <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:37
Subject: [FADCA] Use of ESATCOM for TCP/IP
Hello Everyone,
I finally have seen some light at the end of my work tunnel so I figured now
would be a good time to start this project. I emailed John Fleming with the
State DCA about using ESATCOM to send TCP/IP traffic for the purpose of BBS
to BBS forwarding. I have already responded to John that we are only after
BBS to BBS forwarding and nothing else. Please, lets do not have different
people contacting John. Lets coordinate our efforts and lets see what we can
do.
Here is his response.
Doug/KN4YT
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well, let's give it a try and see how it works...we have only a couple of
restrictions...
a:) whatever is done needs to have statewide applications, not just one
portion of the state or one county group involved....we need to see a system
diagram and make sure the interfaces are correct and if it works, how we can
implement it statewide..
b:) we need to be sure that there is no possibility of streaming or locking
up the channel, there is about 127 k outbound and about 250 k inbound, a
idle state requires about 7% of that, one voice call in progress will take
up another 35% which does not leave much room for another voice call.....of
course, proper TCP/IP will wait for the space but we just want to be sure
that the channel is capable of doing what we pay it for and that our normal
traffic, voice and data, is not sacrificed for some other application..
c:) no video, no priority UTP, no use of ports 7771 or 7777..
d:) if your suggestion includes WinLInk, forget it....we are extremely
pleased with SEDAN and think that WinLink is a poor imitation of SEDAN....we
are running SEDAN over the link and don't want to sacrifice it at all....I
am not convinced that WinLink is an answer, some of the mideast coast guys
are pushing WinLink but it so far has shown us nothing, is not proven and is
very limited in scope...it relys on HF and if the HF part works, which I
don't buy, why do they need a TCP/IP satelitte backbone? the SEDAN thing is
rock solid, has absolute state wide coverage and right now is in over half
of the EOC-related sites in Florida...
e: if it does use too much bandwidth or gives us problems, we'll have to
kill it and remember, if we get real busy on a storm (gasp), or a terrorist
event (gasp), we have to shut everything else down...
when you get down to it, give us a call....it's an easy hookup, a little hub
on the DIU, assignment of the IP numbers in order and away you go...give us
access to the system so we can monitor it.....
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Orginal Message
John,
Some of us digital communicators in ARES/RACES are wanting to know if we can
use the ESATCOM system for the purpose of BBS to BBS mail forwarding using
TCP/IP. I know that we have talked about this in the past and I finally got
enough irons out of the fire to start on another project.
If this is allowable, I would be very interested in setting up a couple of
BBS's to experiment with. We have several sites where the ESATCOM system and
the BBS are co-located already. In my office, the computers are already on
the same physical network.
Let me know what you think.
Doug Christ, ENP
Communications Technician
E9-1-1 Coordinator
DeSoto County Florida
Phone 863-993-4834
Fax 863-993-4840
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