[FADCA] BASICS for SUN CITY

[Evans F. Mitchell KD4EFM / AFA2TH FL]

Virgil,
Just wanted to let you know I am working on getting a node/path setup here
in Polk
it will be at the SNCP in Bartow on the 200' county tower once we can get
the antenna
and beams for the link radios. This way we are able to get arcadia back up
in the loop
and a solid bridge to TPA and ORL.


----- Original Message -----
From: "bud thompson" <budt at cfl.rr.com>
To: <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Cc: <jerryreimer at charter.net>; "Virgil KG4FCD" <kg4fcd at aol.com>;
<RNBishop at aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 10:37 AM
Subject: [FADCA] BASICS for SUN CITY


> NOTE: Subject Changed from Re: Sat. Metting at Hamfest
>
> See my bottom posting below..
>
> bud
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Kg4fcd at aol.com>
> To: <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
> Cc: <RNBishop at aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 20:23
> Subject: [FADCA] Re: Sat. Meeting at Hamfest
>
>
> > Bud,
> > After the meeting on Saturday Dick Bishop Pres. of the Kings point
Amateur
> > Radio Club and myself had a short conversation on getting a switch in
Sun
> > City
> > Center.
> > With our fingers crossed and the help of both Radio Clubs along with
some
> > help from the developer WCI we feel it could be and should be done.
> > I have been ask to contact you and get a list of equipment needed,
> > I would like two list:
> > One, an ideal set up.
> > Two, a bare bones set up
> > When we have that we will set up a meeting of those involved including
our
> > local CERT group and go from there.
> > Also, we would like to set up a demonstration by you regarding the net
> > work
> > and how it functions. I understand that your schedule may take that out
to
> > February and that is fine.
> > I think we have some interest going here and I want to follow up on it.
> > As for Paclink AGW. Where can I find that software? I have used AOL
search
> > and come up with a blank.
> >
> > 73
> > Virgil Gibbs Kg4fcd
> > Manager NTS Eagle Net
> > WCF Information Officer
> > Mentor Online EMCOM Study
> > Packet Mail Box Kg4fcd-1
> > _______________________________________________
> > FADCA mailing list
> > FADCA at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
> >
>
> Hi, Virgil -
>
> We can plan a demonstration/presentation for your local group there
anytime
> after the Orlando Hamcation.  I request that you have as many served
agency
> representatives in attendance as possible.  Best get a schedule early as
our
> dance card gets filled up quickly and we can't do very many too close
> together!  We'll need a computer to large screen projector, and it would
be
> very beneficial if there were a Telpac node installed that we could reach
on
> 2M for the demo - more details on that later if needed.
>
> On putting a full network switch at Sun City - I'll defer to Chuck KB4DJT
> and Gary KC5QCN to counsel us on whether a full switch is needed there and
> we can from there.  They know not only a lot more about the existing
> coverage in the area, but any plans for near term changes.  You might not
> need a full switch which would save a lot of effort and costs.  On the
other
> hand, if Sun City is a good spot to not only cover your 2M user LAN but
also
> connect to a neighbor LAN/switch via UHF using beams, that would help not
> only your users, but benefit the network as a whole.  A switch, of course,
> requires more hardware, thus more expense and maintenance.
>
> > I would like two list:
> > One, an ideal set up.
> > Two, a bare bones set up
>
> I preface this with the fact that I do not know the lay of the land there,
> so the following information is generic and may be used almost anywhere a
> group is needing to become part of the existing network.  (I'm advising a
> group in Texas and have included the contact in cc:)  My counsel can best
be
> provided as building blocks - barest bones to full switch, as much of the
> hardware is the same and may simply be added at successive stages, if the
> switch is not installed initially.
>
> SITE - An initial test requires a site from which the closest neighbor
> network switch(es) can be reached on the neighbor 2M LAN.  This will
require
> an antenna with sufficient elevation (likely at least 100 ft in most
cases)
> that can provide the following:
>
> (1) With 60w output (or less!) on two meters cover the entire area of your
> users' interest - which in most cases should not be more than about 30
miles
> in radius.  To cover much more would likely require at least 150 ft
antenna
> elevation.  (2)  Reach the nearest existing switch with reasonable S/N on
> 2M. If this is not possible, jump now to BARE BONES OPTION #2 below
>
> > . . .  a bare bones set up
>
> BAREST OF BONES (initial testing phase) -  Install a digipeater on the
same
> 2M frequency as the existing neighbor switch .  This simply brings users
in
> your area into the area of the switch, thus extending the effective range
of
> the existing switch.  For this to work, your site must have sufficient
> antenna height to see the existing switch 2M LAN.
>
> Antenna - Use a 2M vertical gain antenna at the height to cover your
users'
> area with no more than 60 w.  Where sufficient antenna height is attained,
> in many cases 30W may  be enough. Unless a 60w radio is available w/o
> significant cost, I suggest  starting with a 2M FM mobile radio that can
put
> out at least 30w.  It is likely not prudent to add an amplifier just to
get
> to 60w. Avoid small hand held radios for any of this work.
>
> Feed line - For the tests, use any RG-8-sized (or larger) coax available,
> but keep in mind with 100 ft of coax there will be significant losses if
the
> coax is too small or too old.  The ideal situation would be to use
existing
> coax on the tower which had been originally installed for vhf or uhf
> application.
>
> Lightning Protection - in Florida this is a must.  Use Polyphasors (or
> equal) placed at the proper position in the feed line, usually right at
the
> hut at a single point ground.  If you are piggy backing on a commercial
> installation, just follow the layout there and do as has been done by the
> existing users of the site.  We hams must be the best neighbors of a
shared
> commercial site as we are usually non-paying guests and want to maintain a
> low profile!
>
> Radio - For testing this bare bones set up, any 2m ham band radio will
work
> for 1200b packet.  It would be beneficial if the radio had a true 'data
> port' for Transmit Audio (TXA), Receive Audio (RXA) and Puss To Talk
(PTT).
> Radios with such ports may be run on 1200b packet with the squelch full
open
> which offers several advantages.  If you must use the speaker jack output
to
> supply RXA to the TNC, use a "Y" audio cable and small external speaker to
> assist in setting things up.
>
>
> TNC - Any  functioning 1200b TNC you can dig up will work.  MFJ,
Kantronics,
> PacComm, etc.
>
> The TNC is initially set up with a computer so that DIGIPEATING is ON.
The
> TNC will have to have a MYCALL-SSID that cannot be used by any users on
the
> frequency, and can usually also have an 'ALIAS' (e.g. SUNCC, etc) for
> digipeating.  There are other AX.25 parameters that Chuck can provide for
> the area.  The computer is not required for operation of this digipeater,
> just for initial set up.  If you use a typical Kantronics TNC (KAM, KPC-3,
> KPC-9612, etc..) you can do some modification of the TNC parameters over
the
> air using  the REMOTE command, thus saving the requirement for site access
> and a trip if there is any need to trim the parameters. Other brands may
> also offer REMOTE.  Most TNCs also provide a Personal BBS or Mailbox that
> can be used for testing around the area - allowing a single person to do
> range testing w/o the need for someone else being 'live' to help.  Over
> time, however, using a PBBS routinely on your digipeater might provide
> bothersome interference on the neighbor LAN.  There is nothing wrong with
> using it for initial and on-going testing of your local coverage.
>
> BARE BONES OPTION #2 - Your own Sun City LAN - and half a switch (well
> almost a switch.)
>
> Antenna - Use a vhf vertical gain antenna and a 6-element or larger beam
for
> UHF.  Using two antennas will require two separate feed lines. (If you are
> installing a new VHF vertical and it is not the highest antenna on the
> tower, consider a dual band VHF/UHF, in addition to the beam.  The other
> side of the dual band antenna might come in handy later.  However, if the
> tower you are on is prone to lightning attacks, you best seek local
counsel
> on whether a non-DC grounded antenna is wise to install.  Your local users
> will be on VHF on a separate frequency than the neighbors' LANs. This will
> require frequency coordination through FADCA.
>
> Feed line and lightening protection is as before - though you'll need two
of
> each!
>
> Radios - The same radio as above may be used for 2M.  You will need a
9.6kb
> capable UHF radio on the backbone frequency to reach  the neighbor switch.
> We have not thoroughly tested the typical Kenwood, ICOM, and Yaesu "9.6kb
> ready" radios, but most work satisfactorily providing the s/n is very
good.
> None work acceptably on weak signals, and likely are not acceptable in
high
> RF environments such a as sites where a lot of commercial and/or amateur
> devices are co-located.
>
> TNC - Using a single KPC-9612 and the two radios, your group will  have a
> "private" 2M LAN and be able to 'switch over' to the UHF side for network
> access.  As above, a computer will only be required for initial
> configuration and the TNC parameters may be modified remotely.
>
> NOTE: Where ever 9.6kb is employed any 'plug 'n play' concept must be
taken
> with a grain of salt.  That said, there are plenty of experienced folks
> close by who can help set this up and after that all should work fine.
>
> The 'band switching' function of the KPC-9126 is accomplished in the
> firmware-based KA-NODE which is similar to TheNet or an X1-J4 node.
> However, it is not automatic as with an FPAC switch.  Users may navigate
> through the node from the LAN side to get to the network switch on the UHF
> backbone, usually requiring two or three successive keyboard commands for
> network access.  The Paclink AGW Program used by your users for E-mail
over
> ham radio can be programmed with scripts to provide automatic connections
> through the KA-NODE then on to the network and a TelPac node.  However,
the
> DOS version of FPAC cannot automatically readily negotiate from the switch
> back through the KA NODE to your local users.  (We can check with Chuck to
> learn if the LINUX version of FPAC can do that.)
>
> NOTE:  For e-mail over ham radio applications, it is not necessary,
> appropriate, nor even possible for users' Paclink AGW in users' computers
to
> accept an incoming connect request, so the fact FPAC can't make the
> negotiation through a KA NODE is moot.
>
> * * * *
> NOT SO BARE BONES OPTION - Your very own switch... Highly recommended
right
> after you know you can reach another neighbor from your side on UHF with a
> beam.  Skip all the above if you can other than for testing.
>
> If is it determined that you want to go beyond a digipeater (or are not in
> digipeater range and need a UHF beam to reach the nearest network switch),
> then put up an FPAC switch at your site.  I suggest you consider this even
> before the BARE BONES OPTION #2, and certainly if Chuck recommends you put
> up a switch to extend the network between one switch and another.
>
> Antennas - as  in BARE BONES OPTION #2 except you'll need one more UHF
> antenna if this is a complete Network Switch.  If this switch is only
needed
> to bring your area in the network, you'll only need the two antennas
above.
>
> Feed lines and lightning protection - same as above or three for a full
> switch.
>
> Radios - The same 1200b radio will work for your 2M LAN.  You will need a
> 9.6kb capable radio for each of the UHF ports.  I will defer to Chuck -
but
> if you have any financial support, I'd suggest you consider the Tait
radios
> or similar that Chuck was demonstrating at the Ham Fest.  The Motorola
> Mitreks (circa 1980s) we are using for 9.6kb on our three switches here in
> E. Central FL work swell.  However, we have an average of $100 and five to
> ten man hours of time in conversion, modification and wiring to TNCs,
powers
> supply, etc.  This work is not for the faint of heart.  Something like the
> radios Chuck was using would be truly Plug 'n Play - and there is a lot to
> be said for that.  Where there are more bucks, get a similar VHF radio for
> the LAN -it has much better co-existence tolerance and looks better in the
> cabinet!  (Also if most of us used the same radios, sharing spares would
> work out swell when one had to go in for repair.)
>
> Chuck will know the details, but the Tait data radios are in the $450
range
> in single qty and might come down to $400 in qty of ten- only a guess on
my
> part.
>
> TNCs -  Use one KPC9612 dual port - 1200b for the VHF LAN and 9.6kb for
one
> of the 9.6kb backbones.  If you have a 2nd backbone, you can use another
> KPC9612 and not use the vhf side, or a single port 9.6kb TNC such as
PacComm
> Spirit 2.  I'm testing an AEA PK-96 now and it seems to work fine. A
> benefactor has donated three for the Melbourne switch and I plan on
putting
> all three there (vhf LAN and two backbones all 9.6kb).  The price was
right!
> I'm less partial to the Tiny 2s with the add on 9.6kb daughter board, but
> only because all mine were picked up for junk prices and when I need to do
> any trouble shooting it is more of a chore. (So much so I send them to the
> W. Palm Beach Gang who has more experience and patience than I.)  However,
> those TNCs work just fine once set up.
>
> The PK-96 will work either 1200b or 9.6kb (not both at the same time.) A
> neat option for this three port switch would be three PK-96s with one set
> for 1200b on the user LAN.  I believe the cost of these is $250 ea or so.
> The costs of new KPC-9612s is $350 or so.
>
> NOTE: I believe there is support for sound card packet modems with LINUX
> FPAC - Chuck will have to address this possibility.  Because of the cost
of
> TNCs, this option needs to be investigated as soon as possible.  However,
> even with LINUX I'd guess this will require a somewhat faster computer
> processor than w/o.
>
> Computer - Now you will need a computer - not much of one - Seek counsel
> from Chuck on computer requirements as I recommend you go right to LINUX
> FPAC and skip over DOS FPAC.  LINUX FPAC will support both radio ports of
a
> KPC-9612 with a single comport so you'll only need two comports for a
> three-port switch.  There are other details (i.e. 6PACK) that Chuck will
> soon elaborate on for all of us but that is not a issue of expense.   In a
> discussion last night over dinner three of us came to the conclusion that
a
> laptop such as Chuck was using for his demo at the Ham Fest would really
> offer a lot for our remote sites.  However, where there is a satisfactory
> hut with air conditioning and space, a standard desk top or tower case
> computer will work find.  Speed and memory requirements are very minimal
> compared to Windows OS.  Keyboard/mouse and monitor are only needed for
> configuration.  I expect configuration files for LINUX FPAC can be
> configured remotely; DOS FPAC can.
>
> Internet connection at your site?  Oh, would that be beneficial!
>
> TELPAC - If you have access to an Internet connection you can run a TelPac
> Node which will (1) give your local users e-mail access w/o going through
> the network to another LAN/TelPac, and (2) offer mutual aid for your
> neighbors who could get to your TelPac through the network when needed.
For
> a TelPac node you would need to have a computer running 24/7 (Win 98 or
> later MS OS).  You will have to have Internet port 12001 'outbound' open
for
> that.  I'm not certain that the TelPac node can be run at the same time on
> the same KPC-9612 TNC as would be used in the BAREST OF BONES or BARE
BONES
> OPTION #2 above but it might be. I can check that out.  However, with
LINUX
> FPAC I would expect Chuck can make that work some way.  We are treading on
> new territory there.
>
> Winlink EMCOMMs PMBO - With the internet connection you will be able to
run
> a WL2K PMBO to support 'hubbing' of e-mail messages among your local group
> when the internet connection is down.  There is no more hardware to
include
> for this, but another Internet port will need to be open (I forget which
> one.)  It would also be beneficial for Mutual Aid Communications for port
> 12001 to be open both inbound and outbound.  (All this is password
> protected.)  If necessary, all this could be inside the DMZ of the site.
>
> Okay - I hope you can use this information and make the lists of gear you
> need.  If you have any questions, just let them fly.
>
> bud
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> FADCA mailing list
> FADCA at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
>