[FADCA] RE: [Fpac] Re: Internet/FBB/LINUX/FPAC

[fadca@mailman.qth.net]

I will say this, Win2k is the most stable and the easiest to support of
them all. WinNT is a real mess, I have to load OS on 6 machines at least
once a week, (they are used for QA testing and have to be "virgin" when
new code comes out) and I really dread the NT loads, it takes 6 reboots
from the point where I start loading the OS to the point where they are
ready to to take the test code, Win2k is down to only three reboots,
the first one after it has loaded every thing and advises you to remove
the CD, the second one is after a upgrade to SP2 and the third is after
I.E. is installed. Our product runs on Windows and we have to test it
in 98,NT and Win2K. We hav avoided XP, it is a security violation and
so far our clients have avoided it, but MS is pushing them hard. We are
beginning to see some rebellion as there are more and more questions
coming in on the use of LINUX. Particularly from Europe where LINUX is
really big, but we see more and more interest due to the fact that 
IT departments are starting to buck at the forced upgrades created by
MS.

In the area of logging we lost a server that had Oracle running on it,
I have to go through it Monday as the other guys can not find the
problem. The biggest issue is MS does not do enough error logging to
give you a idea of where the problem is. I am going to probably end
up loading LINUX on the machine just so I can get a decent error log.

As to the statement that people will have a problem with LINUX coming
from a windows world, if you set up LINUX with KDE as the desktop they
will feel right at home with it, the apps use most of the same CUI type
of operations so they will not have to re-learn a new UI. The gain?
Stability and a great reduction in worries as to viruses and hacking.

I was involved in disaster operations in Costa Rica 10 years ago, we
used a common BBS (AA4RE) as the message entry system, all the
operators had to do was open a new message give it a call or tactical
call, set the priority enter the text and send, each bbs would dump
it's messages at a preset time, though we could have had them send
the messages as soon as the operator hit the end of text key but we
had several of them at a triage point going into a single 1200 baud
switch so we had each one send it's pending messages during a assigned
time slot, each time one of those BBs connected to the central BBS it
would set the clock on the connecting BBS keeping all of them in synch.
It was easy and the operators many of who were not even amateurs could
knock out messages as fast as they dropped them on their message holders.

By the way each of the message entry point BBS was a floppy based laptop,
that was plugged into a TNC which was connected to some sort of 2m radio
most of which were handhelds. The basic emergency radio package was carried
in a small suite case or a large briefcase. That even included the antenna.

We had portable switches that we could set up in a emergency area and that
switch then in turn talked to the nearest mountain top switch. In the case
of the April '91 quake, we were able to handle a large amount of message
traffic keeping the public network free for higher level stuff.

Back then the OS was DOS, and it was all quite simple, pretty bullet proof.
Ohh and for the HF links we used AMTOR, it was not fast but it was supper
reliable, and you could always depend on it to get the message through.


-----Original Message-----
From: John D Young [mailto:jdy@dsl-216-227-77-65.telocity.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 08:58 PM
To: wchast@utilpart.com
Cc: budt@cfl.rr.com; willy3jax@telocity.com; jimmor@aug.com;
paul@vns.net; n4zfh@juno.com; wa8kne@arrl.net; fadca@mailman.qth.net;
highlandfl@telocity.com
Subject: RE: [Fpac] Re: Internet/FBB/LINUX/FPAC


AMEN BROTHER!

I wish I could have said it as well as you did.
I support Linux and Microsoft at my work.  I find I spend much less time
futzing with Linux than with WinXX and Linux is less confusing that all
the changes that are made with each update from MS.

John
WA8KNE


On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 wchast@utilpart.com wrote:

> My View
> 
> Windows is like radio shack it is handy, but when you want to
> get down to real nitty gritty you need a lot more than radio
> shack.
> 
> Windows does not support AX.25 in the kernel, LINUX does.
> Windows does not support any of the common networking protocols
>   LINUX supports them all.
> Our network in this state is built on FPAC, we can migrate every
> DOS FPAC site to FPAC LINUX and gain the ability to use IP,NETROM and
> several other protocols in the deal. We can not do that with Windows.
> 
> How does WinLink support X.121 type routing? FBB and TNOS both support
> it, and if you are running them in a LINUX box you can actualy have
> a X.121 address for the device in question. That along with IP and the
> other protocols.
> 
> The limited support for IP does not bode well for many of the narrow
> band width links that we have throughout the state, it is better to
> segment it above the radio network level and hand off smaller packets
> to the RF network, and reconstruct the large IP packets on the far
> end, less over head over those narrow band links, this of course provided
> that your application supports use of the 'M' bit at the link level.
> 
> For LINUX there is source code for everything, so things can
> be fixed or modified if so needed.
> 
> Viruses are almost non-existant, so there is not the need to constantly
> patch and update protection, and hacking is made so much more difficult
> by the security built into LINUX since it is the same as that of a well
> built UNIX system.
> 
> Windows has only one window manager, WINDOWS, LINUX has a large number of
> them, the really simple ones are very good for this appllication, you do
> not want your emergency operators trying to access other things on the
> system
> so you can setup a window manager that only has those tools the user is
> supposed to have access to. That means you can have a screen that only has
> the icons needed to do the job.
> 
> It is good that we test and use the Windows product, but making it the
> only one just gets us into the mess that all the rest of the world is in,
> with M$. We have the tools in LINUX to do all of this too, and there is
> a lot of it being done, several of the LINUX list attest to this.
> 
> I am setting here in a server room at my place of work and see every day
> the issues of a "monoculture computer system". Problems that would have
been
> fixed long ago continue to plague us because we are a "windows shop"
believe
> me our management is looking at Linux real seriously in order to cut cost
> and reduce the impact of virus/hacker type problems. The first things to
go
> will be the servers, and firewall, then we will start looking at the
desktop
> and laptop areas. Some of these will remain Windows but we are seriously
> looking at what can be moved to Linux in order to reduce cost.
> 
> My best comparison of Windows is to a car with the hood welded shut, Linux
> is open and all documented so you can follow things as they happen, to a
> much greater depth, logging is excellent whereas in windows it is almost
> non-existant, that I saw here the other day very clearly while our guys
who
> were trying to fix a machine looked at logs and could find nothing as it
did
> not log a thing. They ended up calling M$ with a credit card in hand to
get
> it fixed.
> 
> If you want a totally Outlook type of operation you can use Evolution
under
> LINUX and get all of the same sort of services that you get with Outlook
> without the MS virus issues associated with Outlook. Evolution talks to
the
> mail service through the IP stack which handles the AX.25 issues also,
> including
> which every protocol is common to your area.
> 
> One other comment, a lot of those last miles may not be 802.11 links so
you
> need to keep that in mind at all times, and even when they are you need a
> fall back. That 802.11 link may not be there after a disaster particularly
> the type we are most associated with, wind has a nasty way of re-aiming
> parabolas for you.
> 
> Just my $0.02 worth.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bud Thompson [mailto:budt@cfl.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 08:03 PM
> To: Bill Guthrie; Jimmy Morrell; paul@vns.net; Larry W Weaver;
> wa8kne@arrl.net; fadca@mailman.qth.net; Russell Oder N4KOX
> Cc: fpac@mailman.qth.net; Rick KN6KB; ke6RK@winlink.org;
> W5ZIT@winlink.org
> Subject: [Fpac] Re: Internet/FBB/LINUX/FPAC
> 
> 
> Deltona, FL
> Tuesday Feb 26 1800EST
> 
> I've waited for a while to respond ....
> ---------------------------------------------SNIP------------------
> 
> 
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