[Elecraft] Lightning concerns: Was: K4 Remote: My QTH vs. a friend's, many miles to the north
Dave (NK7Z)
dave at nk7z.net
Sun May 5 18:07:57 EDT 2024
Jorge,
Your question was answered already...
73,
Dave,
https://www.nk7z.net
On 5/5/24 10:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
> hello
>
> To finish with this topic, I was just wondering if a device that is
> intended for use in remote stations, always connected and in some cases
> with no one to disconnect during storms, could not have a better USB
> connector, for example
>
> If he tells me it can't be done, fine, my question has been answered and
> thank you very much.
>
> time to move on to other virtues of Elecraft
>
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
> El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 10:12, Mike Fatchett W0MU (<w0mu at w0mu.com>)
> escribió:
>
>> Lightning is like wildfires which burn some houses or land but not
>> others. There is no rhyme or reason why some devices are not damaged
>> and other are. I suspect that most items were damaged but not made
>> inoperable.
>>
>> Couldn't the argument be made that the computer or USB hub should do
>> more and at what cost?
>>
>> You are quite lucky that your entire shack was not destroyed.
>>
>> I don't believe Elecraft should be blamed here, nor do I believe they
>> need to do anything. There is no preponderance of data that shows the
>> Elecraft interface is more or less susceptible to this damage.
>>
>> My power supplied failed and produced an over voltage situation which
>> damaged my K3. It it the fault of the PS maker or Elecraft?
>>
>> These situations are why many of us have Insurance that cover these
>> events. This coverage could be a homeowners policy or policies similar
>> to the ARRL insurance program. These coverage's may or may not be
>> available to everyone however.
>>
>> W0MU
>>
>>
>> On 5/4/2024 10:57 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:
>>> Thread subject changed to reflect the actual topic.
>>>
>>> It is the station owner that is responsible for lightning protection
>>> (or other environmental risks); not Elecraft or most any product
>>> vendor of any type. To require more, would cost more (for the
>>> hardware and for the liability risk that the company would have to
>>> endure).
>>>
>>> The area/s missed in the protective system design, can be demonstrated
>>> by a nearby or direct hit (induced voltages and current can be almost
>>> as damaging); as you already found (and it's EASY to miss an entry
>>> point, no blame intended).
>>>
>>> The ARRL has a good amount of simplified how-to in the book "Grounding
>>> and Bonding" but several readings may still be needed for
>>> understanding the content. There are other good resources (Motorola
>>> has one, so does the cell phone industry; each is excellent but best
>>> used to induce sleep, they are intense and technical and reference
>>> various applicable laws).
>>>
>>> It's not all about lightning but static dissipation as an energy
>>> source. That static source may also be dust, wind, snow, or rain
>>> (yes, water). Diverting that charge OUTSIDE the building (shack) to
>>> GROUND is the basic plan but it must also include EVERY entry point
>>> (cable TV, phone, DSL, antenna, rotor, control cables for antennas,
>>> mast, satellite dishes and tower).
>>>
>>> Using several ground rods as part of a system is common BUT they must
>>> all be bonded to each other AND to the one common safety ground of the
>>> building (US and other countries require this, by law). Use of water
>>> pipes is no longer code, in the US (because PEX and PVC are common,
>>> defeating ability to take to ground).
>>>
>>> From your description Jorge, it sounds like you did it correctly, but
>>> missed an entry point. Now you'll have to replace parts, sadly.
>>>
>>> Let's limit any more, to Elecraft specific topics. This one has
>>> wandered well afield of Elecraft.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Rick nk7i
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/4/2024 9:21 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
>>>> Hi Dave
>>>>
>>>> I have a panel like yours, each antenna to a discharger, on a copper
>>>> sheet.
>>>> Nothing has happened with the coaxial and antenna switch
>>>>
>>>> I have several rods that make the ground and a copper bar behind the
>>>> desk
>>>> and all the equipment is connected to the ground
>>>>
>>>> The lighting came through the antenna of my internet link, then it
>>>> went to
>>>> the router, then to the computer where I have the kpa1500 connected
>>>> with a
>>>> USB cable
>>>>
>>>> My question about whether Elecraft could do more is whether there
>>>> could be
>>>> something better than the USB it currently has, which seems to me to
>>>> be a
>>>> simple USB connector, like that of any printer for example.
>>>>
>>>> So there is my question, if for such an expensive piece of equipment,
>>>> there
>>>> could be something of better quality, if not, I apologize, we will
>>>> have to
>>>> live with these things.
>>>>
>>>> See you in the bands!!!
>>>>
>>>> Have a good weekend!
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Jorge
>>>> CX6VM/CW5W
>>>>
>>>> El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 1:08, Dave (NK7Z) (<dave at nk7z.net>) escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>
>>>>> I can only go by what you said:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Last week I experienced a lightning strike"
>>>>>
>>>>> That sounds a lot like a direct discharge into the shack, so I am
>>>>> responding to your comment, if that is not correct, please help me
>>>>> understand what actually happened...
>>>>>
>>>>> Lightening is strange, it can take out one piece of equipment, and not
>>>>> touch another... It all depends on how your shack is grounded, and how
>>>>> it is bonded. When grounding commercial equipment, even the path the
>>>>> wire takes is important... Curves, straight line runs, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>> What sort of ground system are you using, and what sort of lightening
>>>>> protection did you have in place at the time of the lightening event?
>>>>>
>>>>> Take a look at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.nk7z.net/building-a-coax-entry-panel/
>>>>>
>>>>> That is my entry panel. I am slowly building a ground ring around the
>>>>> house... Why? Because only I can build a system to help reduce the
>>>>> chances of lightening taking out something in my environment. It is
>>>>> after all my home, and my environment, so I can not, and do not, hold
>>>>> Elecraft responsible for things they can not control. Elecraft, can not
>>>>> be responsible for my grounding, and bonding practices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Respectfully, in your original question you implied that Elecraft
>>>>> should
>>>>> have done more to make the KPA1500 withstand an as yet, correctly
>>>>> defined lightening event. Again, respectfully, if you believe Elecraft
>>>>> failed in some way, then you should say what, and how they failed...
>>>>> Not imply they should have done more... That is unfair.
>>>>>
>>>>> With respect to the weekend-- I hope to see you in the 7QP contest! I
>>>>> will be on Sunday, but I fear the Sun will not assist much... Take care
>>>>> my friend...
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, and thanks,
>>>>> Dave (NK7Z)
>>>>> https://www.nk7z.net
>>>>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>>>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>>>>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/4/24 17:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
>>>>>> hi Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge into
>>>>>> the shack would have burned everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB of
>>>>>> a box
>>>>>> of GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rotor controls and other PCs did not burn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In short, it was the fear I had of buying new and sophisticated
>>>>>> equipment living so far from where the company is located.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a good weekend
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>> CX6VM/CW5W
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 21:31, Dave (NK7Z) (<dave at nk7z.net
>>>>>> <mailto:dave at nk7z.net>>) escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jorge,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That device would not stand a strike... As per the US Weather
>>>>> service,
>>>>>> (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power
>>>>>> <https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power>), a typical
>>>>> lightening
>>>>>> bolt runs around 300,000,000 volts, at 30,000 amps. That
>>>>>> device is
>>>>>> speced for 4000 volts...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Elecraft to protect the amp against a lightening strike as
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> described you had, they would need to add a LOT more hardware
>>>>>> than
>>>>> that
>>>>>> to the price of an already expensive amp, and most people
>>>>>> would never
>>>>>> see need the protection. Hence why they don't even try and
>>>>>> protect
>>>>>> against a direct lightening strike.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The onus for lightening protection always rests with the device
>>>>> owner.
>>>>>> 73, and thanks,
>>>>>> Dave (NK7Z)
>>>>>> https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>>>>>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>>>>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>>>>>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/4/24 16:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
>>>>>> > Dave
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about
>>>>>> electronics
>>>>>> either,
>>>>>> > but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio
>>>>>> friends
>>>>>> give me.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> > like this,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
>>>>>
>>>>> <
>>>>>
>> https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A
>>>>
>>>>> it might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 73,
>>>>>> > Jorge
>>>>>> > CX6VM/CW5W
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 19:06, Dave (NK7Z) (<dave at nk7z.net
>>>>>> <mailto:dave at nk7z.net>
>>>>>> > <mailto:dave at nk7z.net <mailto:dave at nk7z.net>>>) escribió:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Jorge,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that
>>>>>> mindset,
>>>>> their
>>>>>> > thoughts will be you should take care of your own
>>>>>> lightening
>>>>>> protection.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 73, and thanks,
>>>>>> > Dave (NK7Z)
>>>>>> >https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>>>>>> <https://www.nk7z.net
>>>>>> <https://www.nk7z.net>>
>>>>>> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>>>>> > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>>>>>> > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
>>>>>> > > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O
>>>>>> module of
>>>>>> > my KPA1500
>>>>>> > > was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure
>>>>>> that the
>>>>>> > equipment is not
>>>>>> > > damaged?
>>>>>> > ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> > Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>>> > Message delivered tocx6vm.jorge at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
>>>>>> > <mailto:cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > 73,
>>>>>> > Jorge
>>>>>> > CX6VM/CW5W
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>> CX6VM/CW5W
>>>>
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