[Elecraft] Giving Up

Tue Jun 8 10:46:33 EDT 2021

Hopefully Elecraft will put a priority on pre-distortion which will vault the K4/KPA1500 combo to the top on the transmitter performance list. Only the Anan rigs from Apache Labs employs pre-distortion  now.

73,
Bill WE5P

Comfortably Numb

> On Jun 8, 2021, at 10:31, Rick Tavan <rick at tavan.com> wrote:
> 
> Rob Sherwood's data is excellent. The problem is hams thinking the order of
> listing is based on an
> overall figure of merit. It is *not*. Rob had to choose *one column* on
> which to sort his list. When he
> first published it, he chose third-order dynamic range (narrow spaced),
> probably because many
> receivers *of that day* had poor performance on that important metric. For
> consistency, he has chosen
> to retain that sort order even though many (most?) modern receivers have
> improved to the point
> where that particular parameter is almost irrelevant when choosing among
> top radios. George is
> correct that most of us can't tell the difference among radios due to minor
> differences in
> DR - they are ALL excellent and Rob is careful to point that out when he
> speaks at
> hamfests. In fact, most modern transceivers excel in so many receiver
> performance metrics that
> Rob and others are now rightly crusading for improvements in transmitter
> performance which
> has not advanced as much as receiver performance across the industry. K4
> (and K3 before it)
> and a few others have excellent transmitter IMD and clean keying that make
> them best choices,
> especially in crowded or multi-transmitter environments and among hams who
> care about not
> generating unnecessarily broad signals. That plus ergonomics and operating
> features should be
> the new basis of comparison but they don't fit on a list of *receiver
> performance* metrics.
> I'd like to see a new table of select transmitter performance measurements.
> Ergonomics
> and feature sets don't lend themselves as easily to tabular comparison
> except by manufacturers
> who can choose which things to mention, so it's important to read the
> descriptions, read the
> reviews, listen to owners and, if still unsure, sit down with the radios
> before making a decision.
> 
> The Sherwood data is good. Just don't interpret it the wrong way.
> 
> 73,
> 
> /Rick N6XI
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:54 PM George Thornton <
>> gthornton at thorntonmostullaw.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree that the price for the K4 has to be compared with the fully loaded
>> K3 plus P3.   In that respect it is not overpriced.
>> 
>> I don't think we should make too much of the Sherwood Engineering test
>> data at this point.    I would suspect it would be hard for the human ear
>> to tell the difference among the top eight or ten models on the list.  I
>> also think that when the K4 HD unit is out you might see higher results.  I
>> suspect direct sampling technology is not as capable as superhet when it
>> comes to separating out closely spaced signals which is what Sherwood
>> Engineering uses to rank radios.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net <elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
>> On Behalf Of turnbull
>> Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 11:27 PM
>> To: Doug Person <doug at k0dxv.com>; elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Giving Up
>> 
>> GM Doug,    A fully loaded K3 P3 was always dear.   It rivalled the 7850
>> price but did not reach the cost while arguably being the better radio.
>> The fully loaded K4 is less expensive to my reckoning in todays money than
>> the loaded K3 with P3 and physically smaller.    I suspect it may not be so
>> much superior to the K3 in RF terms except that it is in the important area
>> of ergonomics.   The wait has been excessive for sure.Your reasonng is
>> understandable.   Hope the next radio is great.   Meanwhile keep enjoying
>> ham radio.I will keep waiting.73 Doug EI2CNSent from my Galaxy
>> -------- Original message --------From: Doug Person <doug at k0dxv.com>
>> Date: 08/06/2021  03:34  (GMT+00:00) To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] Giving Up Sadly, I've decided to give up waiting for
>> the K4. I'm probably far down the list anyway. Their are numerous reason
>> for this decision. First, there is the cost. With a tuner the price is
>> $4600 making it one of the most expensive transceivers on the market. I
>> fully realize that the K4 is feature rich and extremely well designed. I
>> would never take anything away from Elecraft's engineering ability. The K3
>> set a new standard of performance that made the other manufacturers
>> substantially up their game - which they did. But is the K4 going to do the
>> same thing the K3 did? To me, it doesn't look like it. Innovative in some,
>> perhaps many ways - yes. A new trend setter? I'm not so sure. When the K3
>> came out it was very competitively priced. I'm not sure I would describe
>> the K4 with the same words. It is unquestionably an expensive radio. At
>> this point the price/performance just isn't there for me. I sold my very
>> complete K3 station several years ago in anticipation of the K4. But now
>> the waiting has left me thinking about how much I'm willing to invest and
>> whether or not another brand whose transceivers are as much as $1500 less
>> and whose performance seems quite impressive will meet my needs. After
>> literally several years of contemplation I conclude that, for me, the K4 is
>> not worth the price. $3600 (with the tuner since every other significant
>> radio includes one) would seem competitive and I would jump on it at this
>> price. But as it is? Can't see doing it. I apologize if feelings are hurt
>> or I've made anyone angry. I'm leaving the list since I'm no longer waiting
>> patiently for what we once called Vaporware.Good luck to everyone on their
>> current and future K4s.Doug --
>> K0DXV______________________________________________________________Elecraft
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> 
> Rick Tavan
> Truckee and Saratoga, CA
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