[Elecraft] When might there be a P3 sale or drop in price

Mon Feb 17 13:24:27 EST 2020

Everyone's setup and goals are different, but I can add my perspective on
this topic having owned an LP-PAN2 for years.  Plus I bought and owned a P3
with the VGA addon for comparison with the way I operate from my home
station with my K3S.  I also have tried both the RSP1a and the RSPduo with
the LP-PAN2.  Having spent time and money on all these solutions to compare
them, it was a simple decision to return to the LP-PAN2 using the ASUS
Xonar U7 to preset the I/Q output of the LP-PAN2 on screen for use on the
desktop.  Again, everyone has different requirements, so my conclusions
won't match with what other ops want from a setup. Here is what I'll
discuss.  1. P3, 2. SDRPlay SDR/RSP1/RSpduo etc.. connected to the IF
output of the K3/S, 3. LP-PAN2 with an ASUS Xonar U7.  The cliff notes
version here concludes that for NG7M, option 3 is clearly the hands down
winner for performance and desktop software integration.  Again, other
operators will disagree... I get it, everyone has different needs,
expectations, budget and patience required to understand and setup each of
these solutions.

1. The P3 with the VGA add-on daughter card: My most recent purchase out of
all these solutions was the P3 with the VGA addon board.  For an external
toaster setup, you can't go wrong here, it worked great but based on my in
the shack operating, contests and DX'ing, I never used it or even looked at
it while I had the LP-PAN2 setup running in parallel. But for plug and play
for someone that doesn't want to mess with software etc... it might be the
best solution.  It was simply clunky for me to look at the P3 display or
look at the separate dedicated monitor for the VGA output.  Plus no easy
point and click operating.  No integration at the desktop software level
using N1MM's spectrum display or a windowed output of the VGA adapter. (yes
I'm aware of VGA capture devices that could be used, but they bring a new
set of complexity to the table)  It was an interesting exercise.  I sold
the P3 after a few months.  It was just taking up space and most of the
time I never turned it on while operating in the shack, however it did look
nice sitting there when I looked at it while not operating. :)  Have I
missed the P3 based on the way I operate.  No... not at all.  All the while
I was using my LP-PAN setup side by side and I used the Spectrum display in
Win4K3Suite and while contesting fed the UDP feed from Win4K3Suite's
spectrum into the native N1MM spectrum... integrated spots and signal
detection for search and pounce... non of this possible with the P3.  So if
you want a turn-key setup and you want to look at a separate monitor with a
separate keyboard and mouse to poke around with the P3 output, it might
work great and it would work great for a DX pile up and just tuning around
and seeing what is going on, on the band.  It's the easiest setup hands
down and you can take the P3 remote very easily etc...  the P3 was simply
not for me and the way I operate.  Plus this is the most expensive solution
out of the setups I have tried.  If you don't want to mess with and tweak
an I/Q based sound card setup or external USB SDR setup, you might as well
stop reading and get out your credit card and buy this solution.  The P3
will always hold a pretty good resale value.  I easily sold mine for what I
paid for it a few months later and it's likely getting used now rather than
collecting dust in my shack.

2. SDRPlay SDR, i.e. an RSP1/a or one of the other flavors like the RSPduo
connected directly to the IF out of the K3/S.  This is an easy setup for
sure and I used it with Win4K3Suite's direct support of this solution.
Super easy setup and you get the native output of the Win4K3Suite spectrum
display which you can feed to N1MM's native spectrum display.  Why didn't I
stick with this solution?  #1 I had already see the superior performance of
the LP-PAN2 with a high end sound card prior to trying this solution.  I
couldn't handle the dynamic range blocking issues and the pumping spectrum
display in contests with strong adjacent signals.  The performance paled
into comparison with the LP-PAN2 and a Xonar U7 sound care.  For a
description and comparison of the dynamic range blocking performance of
the USB dongle SDR's in comparison to an LP-PAN2 pan adapter with a USB
soundcard setup, take a look at N8LP's measurements here:
http://www.telepostinc.com/dongle_comp.html    (likely needs some updates
on the cost comparison here) And yes!  Larry N8LP is bias here because he
sells the LP-PAN2 solution, but my experience and findings match the
numbers he shows... ~80dB of dynamic range with an RSP1 for example as
compared to 119dB with an LP-PAN2 Asus Xonar sound card setup.  ~85-85dB to
~119dB is huge and it shows when you have tried both solutions.  Plus the
SDRPlay SDR's use 14 bit DAC's as compared to a Xonar 7's 24 bit DAC. If
you want to investigate the difference here as it relates to SNR, wikipedia
has a good article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth  And yes,
there is a big difference between 14bits and 24bits, but bit depth doesn't
impact frequency response.  For me, the dynamic range performance with the
SDRPlay solution was a deal breaker.  I sold the RSP1 after a few weeks. (I
also own a newer RSPduo I tinker with but do not use for HF spectrum
display output while operating)  My conclusion, if you want a quick and
dirty spectrum display on the desktop in a window and integration with
N1MM's native spectrum display etc... this is a great option using
Win4K3Suite.  You sacrifice dynamic range blocking in a big way with this
setup.  The cost is ~$125 for an RSP1a and $65 for Win4K3Suite.  Yes I get
it... there are other free solutions for on screen output of the RSP1a.
But for integration in N1MM's spectrum via the UDP feed Win4K3Suite
provides and all the other feature / virtual K3 CAT port management
Win4K3Suite provides, it's a no brainer for me.  Less than ~$200 for this
solution if you are willing to sacrifice dynamic range blocking.  I have a
detailed YouTube video that shows the virtual CAT feed features of the
Win4K3Suite software, but I digress:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbf7BPfcj4U  Once you have tried option 3
below and have the patience to set it up... you will see why option 3 is
the clear winner for my style of operating in the shack. (your different
opinion is valid etc... it's all about your style and appetite  for eeking
out the best performance)

3. N8LP's LP-PAN2 connected to the K3/S IF output with I/Q output of the
LP-PAN2 feed to a high end USB sound card like an Asus U5/U7.  Okay, first
off... let's point out that Larry N8LP stopped selling the LP-PAN2 in Oct
of 2019 but is still fully supported.  This sad news, because I think the
issue here is that most guys are NOT willing to pay the price to setup this
solution and get it working right.  No pain, no gain is my conjecture
here.  This hardware setup with my K3S in conjunction with Win4K3Suite's
spectrum display and UDP spectrum feed support into N1MM is the clear
winner for me.  Hands down.  If are willing to do some research and take
your time with the setup here, you will be rewarded with superior
performance over the above solutions... including better performance than
what you get with the P3.  So until something better comes out with the K4
(yes I have a K4HD on order by the way), this is the clear winner for me on
performance and desktop software flexibility. The K4 and eventual desktop
software integration may convince me to stop using my LP-PAN2, but that is
down the road for now.  And before someone accuses me of being a fan boy of
Win4K3Suite let me say yes!  I'm a fan boy of Win4K3Suite and I have tried
the alternatives like NaP3... I used NaP3 a lot before Win4K3Suite came
out, but the CAT sharing in Win4K3Suite and the reliability of Win4K3Suite
is a hands down winner in my opinion compared to NaP3 and LP-Bridge for CAT
feed sharing.  That is a whole other topic.  If you are sticking with your
K3/S and not making the move to a K4 any time soon and you want the best
performance of an on screen / flexible spectrum display solution that
integrates with N1MM and or any other software supporting the UDP protocol
used by N1MM (including the need to feed your spectrum display output over
the internet), then this is the best setup I would recommend if you are
willing to read some documentation and get things setup / hooked up with
the LP-PAN2, USB Asus U7 and Win4K3Suite. (if you can't bare the $65 price
for Win4K3Suite, then use LP-Bridge and NaP3 or some other free-b software
for the spectrum output using I/Q output of the LP-PAN2 and sound card
integration.)  If you want performance and desktop flexibility and you are
sticking with your K3/S, find a used LP-PAN2 and hold on to it for the time
being.  I can already hear the whiners getting ready to start typing a
response... it's a no pain, no gain preposition here.  Do the research if
you are looking for the best desktop software integration and dynamic range
blocking performance of your direct IF output spectrum of your K3/S, then
my opinion and recommendation is clear... you buy three things, a used
LP-PAN2, an Asus U7 or U5 (I have only used the U7) and Win4K3Suite and
don't look back. And  you take the time to set it up right and understand
how the pieces fit together.  It's not my problem if you can't do the
research and understand the setup. And this setup should be usable right
out of the box when the K4 ships and will bridge the gap until native
spectrum data output on the K4 network interface is fully supported by N1MM
/ other desktop spectrum software.

Whew! Did anyone read all of this NG7M soap box drivel? :)  Max NG7M

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 9:55 AM <gt-i at gmx.net> wrote:

> Been in the same situation, finally had luck and could buy a used P3 for
> a reasonable price. Not fully loaded, but I can second it was worth the
> investment. I played with different panadapters and SDR-software in the
> past and have given up on this. The integration/configuration is not a
> dream. Keeping the config stable with "plug'n'pray" USB-Soundcards isn't
> fun.
> The only thing I would like to see in the P3 is a smaller size given the
> box is mostly empty.
> 73 good luck
> Gernot DF5RF
>
>
> Am 17.02.2020 um 16:42 schrieb AE4PB at carolinaheli.com:
> > I've been fighting getting the P3 for years. After trying to get SDR
> based
> > pan adapters to work reliably (I like the mouse point and tune feature)
> I've
> > decided I want to buy a toaster.
> >
> > Just plug it in and it works.
> >
> > A fully loaded 200watt P3 with video card..etc is hard to swallow when I
> can
> > buy a new HF rig with the Pan adapter built in for less.
> >
> > Are there plans to have a sale or bigger discount?
> >
> > My time frame for purchase is March. I'll probably be going to the
> > Charlotte, NC Hamfest for the purchase unless I'm on call that week.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jerry Moore
> >
> > AE4PB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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