[Elecraft] new K3/0 Mini

Thu Mar 7 11:47:41 EST 2019

Well said Gerry,
Fred AE

On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:45 AM Gerry Hull <gerry at w1ve.com> wrote:

> I have four years of experience using the RemoteRig boxes with both the
> K3/0 Full-size box and the K3/0 Mini.
>
> One must remember that the RRC 1258 boxes are not purpose-built for
> Elecraft, though the solution is elegant, and works flawlessly week after
> week once it has
> been configured properly.
>
> Comparing the Flex solution of the Elecraft + RemoteRig solution is
> comparing Apples to Oranges.  I would hold Flex to an even higher
> standard:  It's a one-company solution, designed way after the Elecraft +
> RemoteRig stuff was on the market.
>
> Hopefully, the K4, or what is ever next from Elecraft, will have
> a detachable front panel --- and the connection between the front panel and
> radio chassis will be Ethernet! (One can dream).
>
> So Flex and Elecraft, I believe, pretty much own the Remote market, which
> is growing rapidly.   I'm sure Eric and team are not sitting on their hands
> regarding remote.
>
> I just passed 25,000 QSOs from VY1AAA, remoting from 4500km away in New
> Hampshire.   The remote end is simple DSL.   The technology rocks.
> Packaging is the result of multiple vendors.
>
> 73,
>
> Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM
> Trustee, VY1AAA
> Hancock, NH
>
> Gerry Hull, W1VE  Hancock, NH USA
> Member: ARRL, YCCC, YCCCN, CW Ops
> gerry at w1ve.com ph: 1-617-CW-SPARK (find me)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:56 AM Barry Baines via Elecraft <
> elecraft at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
>> Fred:
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <fhmassey at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or
>> > K4) is really needed.  The remoterig is relatively difficult and old
>> tech.
>> > The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed.
>>
>>
>> I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700
>> through Maestro remotely.  Both approaches have their advantages and
>> disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges.
>>
>> The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external
>> boxes, cabling, and settings.  However, once up and running it is very good
>> and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for
>> radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3
>> station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max
>> upload of 1.2 MBps.  In most cases, it is 768 Mbps.  In addition, it is a
>> ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the
>> connection is directly between the remote and the K3.  I am not dependent
>> upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections.  However,
>> this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and KAT500.
>>
>> The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use
>> a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an Orion
>> Rotor).  Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would take
>> uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500
>> which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely.  I’ve done
>> this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it
>> requires a PC to run it.  I hope at some point that Remote Rig would
>> upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any web-capable
>> device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.).
>>
>> Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since
>> September 2014 without problems.  I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two
>> different locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a
>> ham station on site.
>>
>> The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and
>> of course it has a remote panadapter capabiity.  But it has taken Flex over
>> five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost
>> and requires greater upload bandwidth.  SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in 2017
>> which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the
>> shack.  Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to
>> establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1
>> to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR.  Flex
>> Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely.  The PGXL
>> amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running
>> SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site.  However, the “Tuner Genius”
>> that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m limited
>> to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need to
>> use a tuner with it.  I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the
>> Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the
>> past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode.  I also keep a
>> Maestro in both Texas and New England.
>>
>> Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does
>> provide some advantages:
>>
>> -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other
>> to use as a backup.
>>
>> -Flexibility.  I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening
>> or participating on nets.  The K3 setup works well since I’m not
>> particularly “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful.
>> Simply turn on the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can
>> enter the frequency of interest.  I have the tuner and amplifier as needed,
>> and 500W is usually more than sufficient for my needs.    The Flex is more
>> helpful if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the
>> PGXL is only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a
>> tuner capable of handling the PGXL.  Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex
>> system does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a
>> lot less than previously.
>>
>> -Space.  I spend 90% of my operating time running remote.  At my
>> locations in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting
>> on my 30” x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain
>> Radio external speakers that can be used with either system.  The Remote
>> Rig equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected
>> hub that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro,
>> Speakers, K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with
>> cable ties attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight.
>> Of course, the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the
>> amount of equipment installed, but the operating position has the real
>> estate to handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space).
>>
>> -Equipment Complexity:  The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are
>> relatively simple devices.  I’ve not had any issues with these devices and
>> while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily
>> required.  The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is
>> essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to
>> boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications
>> and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection
>> to my Flex-6700.  Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last December
>> 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in March
>> 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro.  This can be done
>> remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system.
>>
>> My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no
>> charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs.
>>
>> -Isolation.  Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where
>> I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas.
>>
>> At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically
>> separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches
>> and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help
>> reduce the probability of surge problems or a  ethernet switch failure in
>> the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the
>> antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high
>> isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in
>> the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned room
>> located in the detached garage.  I run a fiber optic cable between the
>> house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house
>> from the shack.
>>
>> Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers
>> capabilities that the other does not have.  Given that I’m over 1,100 miles
>> from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy because
>> things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast
>> Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system
>> but usually the other system is still up and running.
>>
>> From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully
>> consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of
>> investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put
>> into a remote system.  Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it is a
>> complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to develop
>> than what Flex initially announced.  Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in
>> terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear
>> relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they
>> thought it is worth the time and effort.    If one is focused on ’pickup
>> and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or
>> SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than
>> taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup.  i have transported both the
>> Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases
>> between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down and
>> setup this equipment.  I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro devices
>> to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle)
>> between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo
>> space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the
>> clothing and other items needed at the other QTH.
>>
>>
>> FWIW,
>>
>> Barry Baines, WD4ASW
>> (Keller, TX)
>>
>>
>>
>> > 73,
>> > Fred
>> > AE4ED
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM <
>> cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello
>> >>
>> >> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with
>> >> remoterig integrated inside it?
>> >>
>> >> Maybe for Dayton will have it?
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> 73,
>> >> Jorge
>> >> CX6VM/CW5W
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