[Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed

Tue Nov 10 13:51:11 EST 2015

I have my hearing checked every year.  My hearing is good.  I have 2)K3 and 1)K3S.  I have never had a hiss problem with any.
George, W6GF
PS Having worked with TMS320xxxx processors, the only way to go is assembly. 

     On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 10:39 AM, Gary Gregory <vk1zzgary at gmail.com> wrote:

 I agree with Jerry, I have found several instances when i need to adjust RF
Gain, slope, athr etc, example, early mornings here I can pull a couple
VK2's, some 2500 kilometers away on 40M. When there are storms around, I
can take away most if not all of the static crashes and they are a clear
copy and easily understood. In the afternoons, again on 40M, with stations
no more thank 600 kilometers away, I change a couple of my settings BUT
still use NR at 5.1 or 5.2 and I have TX EQ set up diferently on TX ESSB
(set at 3Kz wide) and I have an armchair copy.

I had the "hiss" appear but over time I seem to have been able to fine tune
the receive so that I am not noticing it like it was. Is this after mods
done by Elecraft recently and the new Synth board?, maybe, but I have
learned to operate the K3 better since I went over many of the posts on the
reflector and noted what öthers"had tried. The end result, I now listen to
the K3 on speaker without grinding my teeth and the CM500 headphones are
perfect for my fractured hearing.

This was not always the case, recently Elecraft conducted surgery on my K3
(#679) and I have a totally different wireless (intentionally used TIC)
today to the one I purchased in 2007.

I had a TS-480S and found the DSP was mostly ineffective (to my ears) and I
had other issues with it so I sold it. As an ex-dealer for Yaesu and
Kenwood, I can say with some certainty here that their service regimen is
quite different to Elecraft and size of the companies does play a role
here. I am not going to slam any company, nor am I heaping unwarranted
praise, I know from my experience, Elecraft not only back up their products
well, they show keen interest in each customer who reports an issue and
work very hard to resolve the problem. I don't know that we can expect
more.

I think Jerry Moore is on the right track here, there are many things that
can be adjusted on a K3 and I have been shown a K3 some time ago that the
operator had lost interest in. I had a listen, made it sound like mine and
the smile on his face was great to see. I have to admit, just abut every
setting was changed, I wrote down what I had done and he is now back on air
with his K3.

The reason I won't be rushing to a K3S is simple, My K3 is too good to
sell, and I have never owned a Ham rig for this long, no need to continue
the search, I found the right tool for the job I want it to do.
73

Gary

On 11 November 2015 at 03:28, Robert Vargas-KP4Y via Elecraft <
elecraft at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Wow, so much for a non-kool aid question...You comments give up my friend!
> I have a K3, KX3 and TS-590. It's well documented that the nr in the K3 is
> poor and leave a lot to be desired. Also, in an effort to fix it by making
> it more adjustable, Elecraft overcomplicated its implementation. I love
> Elecraft products, but also love the simplicity and effectiveness of nr
> implementation in the TS-590 (in my opinion even better than the one in
> KX3). Regarding warranty and service, I totally agree Elecraft is hand down
> #1 in this area. However, Kenwood just fixed the ALC issue in my TS-590
> free of charge after 4 years. The question is, can I send my 3 yrs old
> (early production) KX3 to Elecraft to get all the latest
> corrections/improvements (e.g. tuning noise) free of charge. After all, I
> paid about the same amount of money that someone is paying today for a
> better product. ;) I'm a big fan of Elecraft, but resist drinking the Kool
> aid in order to encourage competition.
> Robert-KP4Y
>
>
>      On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:00 PM, "ae4pb at carolinaheli.com" <
> ae4pb at carolinaheli.com> wrote:
>
>
>  I'll make a few comments with information you likely already know and drop
> the thread.
> 1. audio hiss is common with the largest contributor being particles
> traversing the substrate layers of semi-conductors (you get it in tubes as
> well, just not as much). The design keys being S/N ratio, dynamic range,
> and
> gain. Any solution to remove hiss without consideration to S/N ratio and
> gain results in loss of signal level. Hard to complain about weak signal
> work if the system is degraded by mods/adjustments.
> 2. By default the K3S receive audio isn't optimal for everyone's ears and
> dynamic range. That's likely why there's an audio equalizer for both
> receive
> and transmit audio. If you've not adjusted that to optimize the audio to
> your tastes then you're missing out.
>
> I have different hearing issues in each ear. My wish is to be able to
> adjust
> left /right audio independently with both a single receiver and with the
> sub
> installed. I currently run with AFX on full delay. I usually hear signals
> on
> my right ear not my left unless I adjust the equalizer. My right ear being
> more sensitive than my left.
>
> Show me an audio circuit with no hiss and I'll show you missing signal
> level. For most audio applications this doesn't matter because there's
> ample
> signal. When working weak signal it's all about balance and working the
> edges. If you operate with all knobs cranked to the right I'd humbly and
> respectfully suggest that you review your operating procedures regardless
> of
> the radio you use.
>
> Kenwood makes a good radio, however, I've NEVER had good luck with service
> from them or Yaesu. Based on my experiences in forums, reflector, and
> talking with other hams; Elecraft is rabidly good about support.
>
> Jerry Moore
> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
> Patriotic.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:23 AM
> To: ae4pb at carolinaheli.com; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands';
> elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed
>
> Jer,
>
> Perceived audio is just that.  Perception.  And to the individual, it is
> *everything*.
>
> Op skill does come into play, no doubt.
>
> Types of noise come into play, no doubt.
>
> The fact there are only two settings on the Kenwood does limit it's ability
> to "work" under different noise condx.
>
> The K3 is an excellent radio.  I bought one after using a friends at
> Sweepstakes CW two years ago.  The only time I looked back was when I had
> to
>
> hook up the Kenwood TS-480 and my perception is the NR was superior.
>
> BTW, I sent the K3 back because of hiss in the audio with the audio gain
> fully CCW.  Elecraft bent over backwards to find the issue, and advised
> they
> compared to current production rigs, using an audio spectrum analyzer.  I
> also sent the headphones to them in the event the complex impedance of them
> would induce this hiss.  Yes, Elecraft service is second to none.
>
> The radio still has hiss, so I put a resistive pad inline and the hiss is
> gone and ride the audio at 12 noon.
>
> Jim
> W6AIM
>
> P.S.  I do not subscribe to $75.00 per foot speaker cable  ;>)
>
>
>
> .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Moore [mailto:jermo at carolinaheli.com] On Behalf Of
> ae4pb at carolinaheli.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 5:20 AM
> To: 'jim'; 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed
>
> Jim,
>  Here's a non-KookAid question for you.
>
> Just like in school..
> Show your work.
>
> You say that radio <insert make/model/version here> has better <insert
> feature here> than the K3/K3S with latest hardware/firmware.
> Please provide the data upon which you base this.
> What you hear /think you hear is not valid data because operator skill
> comes
> into play.
> I'm no expert but have played with the K3S long enough to know the power of
> it's NR is in finding the balance of settings to pull the desired signal
> out
> of the noise.
>
> Any system that only has a button for NR and lacks granular control of the
> parameters can't possibly pull signals out under all circumstances when
> compared to a system that allows for granular control.
>
> Opinions aside.. please provide the data upon which your claims are based.
>
> Claims without data are just opinion based on several factors; many of
> which
> are out of the operators control and change over time.
>
> No KoolAid, just facts. I don't know that the K3S is better. On paper a
> receiver system is dealing with component noise, board noise, power noise,
> dynamic range, overhead, sensitivity, gain..etc..
>
> On my K3S when digging out signals I'm playing with RF gain, Roofing
> filters, IF DSP Filtering, AGC Slope, AGC Threshold, AGC Time, and finally
> NR DSP algorithm (of which the K3S has LOTS).
> I have 2 main NR settings: One when I expect to have strong local signals
> (e.g... contests) and one for normal use. When chasing weak signal DX I'll
> play with settings to see what I can do.
>
> You're lucky to have never had to send your Kenwood radio in for repair.
> You
> typically end up sending it to a third party repair shop with the hopes
> they
> know what they are doing and do more good than harm.
>
>
> Jerry Moore
> CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
> AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
> http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
> An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
> Patriotic.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of jim
> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 9:14 PM
> To: 'Fred Townsend'; 'Robert Sands'; elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 DSP processor speed
>
> Kenwood (even the "cheap" TS-480) has superior NR.  Even with just two
> different, fixed, settings.
>
> Jim
> W6AIM
>
> <cut>
>
>
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-- 

*Gary - VK1ZZ, K3NHLSkype: Gary.VK1ZZhttp://www.qsl.net/vk1zz
<http://www.qsl.net/vk1zz>Motorhome Portable*
*Miss Behavin'*

*Elecraft K3KPA500FT  #18KAT500FT  #007*
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