[Elecraft] Side Effects of QRQ On The K3

Sun Apr 13 11:35:04 EDT 2014

Hopefully I will find some time to do more experiments this afternoon (maybe not, it will be a sunny day) but sending at 30 wpm is always error prone for me and it takes more effort that is not that comfortable.  I too am best in the 20 to 25 zone.  I think my error rate goes up substantially above about 28 wpm and also when the speed is dropped below about 16 wpm.  Going slower also throws my timing way off.

I use a Begali Magnetic Classic paddle and I love it.  I have a Bencher for the pickup truck mobile and portable ops with KX3.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Apr 13, 2014, at 7:53 AM, Stephen Prior <eastbrantwood at gmail.com> wrote:

> I just tried sending a string of V's at 30 wpm.  Normally my maximum
> comfortable sending level is between 20 and 25wpm, so this is certainly out
> of my comfort zone.  I am using a Begali Expedition and iambic mode B.
> With QRQ off I was about 75% accurate in my sending of strings of V's,
> with QRQ on, it was nearer 90%.  I'm just listening to the sidetone.  That
> was with the delay set to zero.
> 
> With the delay at 0.06 I cannot see any difference between accuracy of
> sending with QRQ on or off, again at the 30wpm level.
> 
> I must concur with previous comments that I have found the K3 to be a
> wonderful rig to use on CW, but I'm no racer, and never will be!
> 
> 73 Stephen G4SJP
> 
> K3 #980
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 April 2014 15:34, Phil Hystad <phystad at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> Which brings another question --- just when should the QRQ be enabled.  I
>> have sent at 30 wpm and that is about the limit of my sending speed and all
>> mistakes are my fault -- but I have never noticed anything choppy or
>> unusual and I have never invoked QRQ.  Reason for not invoking QRQ is that
>> I didn't think I needed it and I thought QRQ was meant for something faster
>> than 30 wpm.
>> 
>> Question:  is this something you hear on the side-tone monitor?  Is it the
>> same as sent?
>> 
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Toby Pennington <w4cakk at centurylink.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Fred,  I was the one who first started this thread.   I think perhaps it
>> may be not affecting that many people,  as there was not much support on
>> here about the QRQ deficiencies.  I have been running QRQ at around 30 wpm,
>> because IF I don't,  I will notice some choppiness in the sent CW.   If
>> you operate the rig at speeds greater than 30wpm,  then you will notice the
>> choppiness in the cw that is being sent. ( without the QRQ turned on..)
>> When QRQ is ENGAGED,  you lose the use of the RIT, Shift,  Hi cut and Lo
>> Cut.
>>> 
>>> It appears as though nothing has been done to improve on this situation
>> by Elecraft,  as they would would have chimed in with a comment about the
>> QRQ issue.  I believe it is their intention to leave the feature as it is
>> and not address anything more concerning it.
>>> 
>>> So,  this will be my last post about an issue which I think needs to be
>> worked on further.
>>> 
>>> I wish all a Blessed Easter and Passover this coming week!      Toby K4NH
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/13/2014 2:46 AM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO wrote:
>>>> Fred,
>>>> 
>>>> I am sorry if you took my remarks personally. I didn't intend to be
>> 'correct' at anyone's expense. But this is a real issue.
>>>> 
>>>> You said "the odds that you'd ever encounter and notice its effects are
>> vanishingly small unless you are a 60+ WPM full QSK operator." That is
>> simply not the case: the problem starts showing up around 35 wpm, in either
>> full or semi-QSK.
>>>> 
>>>> The only ways to mitigate it are to use QRQ mode or to use manual PTT
>> rather than any form of QSK.
>>>> 
>>>> If the fellow who started the thread never operates CW over 30 wpm, or
>> if he gets used to the limitations of QRQ mode (as I have) or if he uses a
>> foot switch, then, yes, he will not notice the problem.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/12/2014 8:39 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would normally top-post but hard in this case ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/12/2014 7:48 PM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO wrote:
>>>>>> I don't agree. With ORQ off, once you exceed about 35 wpm it is not
>> OK
>>>>>> with TX DELAY at 8 ms either. I'm not a perfectionist, it sounds
>> awful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not sure what you don't agree with.  I said I almost never send above
>>>>> 35, and that's N1MM.  I rarely paddle above 25, hand dexterity issues
>>>>> caused by a poor choice of Dad. [for those who don't get that, I loved
>>>>> my Dad, he was really good to me, he was Danish, and it's genetic.
>>>>> Geesh, you never know these days!]
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Brian is correct that it doesn't matter whether you are using the
>>>>>> internal keyer or an external paddle or keyboard, as long as you are
>>>>>> using either semi- or full QSK.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If I didn't say that, I'm sorry, I know that.  I run full QSK all the
>>>>> time, with KPA500, N1MM-Winkey or my paddles.  And yes, Brian is
>> correct
>>>>> [well, I think, I haven't actually tried it, and I'm not at all sure I
>>>>> know what TX DLY is], but that's not the list item I was responding to.
>>>>> Somehow, being "correct," even if it doesn't respond the the original
>>>>> question has become the current badge.  Probably not a good trend.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fred, I'm willing to bet that you have your WinKey USB set up to
>> control
>>>>>> the PTT -- or maybe you have a foot switch. You are not using either
>>>>>> semi-QSK or full QSK. That is why you don't have the problem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How much are you willing to bet? :-))
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Try this: make sure you are using either full or semi-QSK. Turn on
>> QRQ
>>>>>> mode and send some V's at about 40 wpm. It should sound fine. Then
>> hit
>>>>>> RIT and send a few more. You'll see.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vic, I can't send V's at 40 WPM with my paddle any more, too many
>>>>> accumulated birthdays, could when younger.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So FOTL ["Folks Of The List"] ... how about we get back to basics.  I
>>>>> was responding to David Cole, who has been moderately active on this
>>>>> list recently trying to figure out how to buy a K3 and what he wants
>>>>> with it.  I don't know David, but his questions all smacked of
>>>>> sincerity.  I think David is more concerned than he needs to be about
>>>>> the K3 he's ordered, probably 99% of us know he's going to love it.  He
>>>>> gets concerned about some of the peripheral threads on this list, all
>>>>> welcome, but we're a diverse group and not everything that someone is
>>>>> concerned about is our concern.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Learning how to sort that out takes time and experience, and if we're
>>>>> lucky, some advice.  David wants a K3, he's done his research, but he's
>>>>> still sensitive to peripheral posts on the list that suggest he may
>> have
>>>>> made a wrong decision.  How about we all have a little compassion for
>>>>> David and all the others like him.  This is a hard list to follow,
>>>>> especially if you might not be hugely technically knowledgeable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> David, you will really enjoy your K3.  Just use it out of the box for
>>>>> awhile and get to know it.  You'll be able to figure out the rest, and
>>>>> you'll always have help here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fred K6DGW
>>>>> - Northern California Contest Club
>>>>> - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
>>>>> - www.cqp.org
>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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