[Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will Do For Your Signal

Sat Mar 23 11:41:00 EDT 2013

All this beacon talk has forced me to check out 14.1 and there is 
nothing to be heard at my qth with several antennas.

So I am wondering what mode one needs to listen with.  I was assuming CW 
but I can not hear a signal on USB or LSB on that dial frequency.   I 
know the band is not so great today but I can get other digital modes 
work and with no problem at all.

Don

~73
Don
KD8NNU
FH#4107
-.- -.. ---.. –. –. ..-

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> No argument Dave.
> You wrote, "If you are competing against other hams, such as calling 
> CQ in a
> contest or calling DX from within a pileup,.."
> Of course that's a different situation from listening to a signal on a 
> clear
> frequency.
> That's why I don't join pileups calling DX and you'll find me on the 
> WARC
> bands during contests.
>
> And I know a lot of other Hams who operate just as I do, transmitting 
> only
> on clear frequencies. Our sort of operation eliminates the need to 
> have a
> big signal that can be copied through someone else's big signal.
> The beacons demonstrate just how little power is necessary to work the 
> world
> on a clear frequency.
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:43 PM
> To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: For New Hams, How to Tell What an Amp Will 
> Do
> For Your Signal
>
>
> I guess I wasn't particularly clear, or maybe I just didn't say it 
> often
> enough.  If you are competing against other hams, such as calling CQ 
> in a
> contest or calling DX from within a pileup, EVERY db counts no matter 
> how
> good the propagation is.  An amplifier will often win the day for you 
> even
> if you can hear the other guy while he's running QRP.
>
> The same situation exists if it is noisy on the other end of the path, 
> where
> as little as two db will make the difference between clear copy and no 
> copy.
> Check the files on my website if you don't agree.  The problem is ... 
> the
> noise level on the other end may be significantly different than the 
> noise
> level on your end.  Just because you can hear him doesn't mean he can 
> hear
> you.
>
> More importantly, propagation doesn't open up to the same path loss 
> each day
> ... some days 5 watts gets the job done and some days even 1500 won't 
> cut
> it.  And just because you can hear F5XXX running 5 watts doesn't mean 
> that
> you can hear PA3YYY unless he's running 1500 watts.
>
> My point is that EVERYTHING is situational and generalizations don't 
> do
> newcomers many favors.
>
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
>
>
> On 3/22/2013 8:34 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> Yes. An amp that takes you up 10:1 in power, e.g. 20 watts to 200 
>> watts or
>> 100 watts to 1,000 watts, makes a 10 dB difference in signal -- just 
>> a bit over one S-unit.
>>
>> I pointed out the beacon resource as a good example of how often that 
>> extra power is not needed on H.F., especially for narrow bandwidth 
>> modes.
>> Otherwise we would not have QRP enthusiasts using simple verticals 
>> with DXCC awards.
>>
>> I liked the idea that new Hams can listen to the beacons themselves 
>> and decide whether the power difference is all that important.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> That's a good resource but it doesn't tell the whole story.  An 
>> amplifier will give you around 10 db improvement in signal on the 
>> other end.  That's more than the difference between a dipole and a 
>> five element monobander.  As little as 3 or 4 db will make a 
>> significant difference when competing against others in a pileup, and 
>> of course as little as 2 db can make the difference between no copy 
>> and clear copy if your signal is right at the noise level.
>>
>> http://www.ab7e.com/weak_signal/mdd.html
>>
>> Hams have turned their noses up at amplifiers for decades, but the 
>> reality is that an amplifier and a decent vertical is often a more 
>> cost effective way to put out a good signal than is low power to a 
>> tower and big antenna ... especially if you live in a low noise area 
>> where you don't need lots of discrimination to hear DX (and even then 
>> there are compact receive loops that make possible alternatives).
>>
>> Dave   AB7En 3/22/2013 12:49 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>>> For the newer hams, here's an interesting resource that will 
>>> demonstrate to you what a DX signal sounds like at 100 watts, 10 
>>> watts, 1 watt and 0.1 watt. All you have to do it tune into the 
>>> beacon frequency of 14.100, 18.110, 21.150, 24.930, 28.200 using CW 
>>> mode and listen. The beacon stations in 18 countries take turns 
>>> sending call signs and 4 dashes, each dash in descending power 
>>> level. You might be amazed at how often you can hear 10 watts or 
>>> less clearly from half way
>> around the world when the band is open.
>>> When the band is not open, a kilowatt doesn't get through.
>>>
>>> A complete list of the stations, locations and the transmission 
>>> sequence is
>>> at:
>>>
>>> http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/beaconSchedule.html
>>>
>>> IIRC, all of the stations use a simple 1/4 wave vertical antenna.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that an amplifier isn't useful, but this helps put 
>>> the advantage of having one in perspective.
>>>
>>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html