[Elecraft] APF in 4.16/2.63 works well!

Fri Oct 29 21:10:48 EDT 2010

I agree 100%.

Bob
K6UJ

On Oct 29, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> 
>>> I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit idly by while some other ham
>>> who'sin love with his 1980's FT-1000 dictates why I can't have a
>>> Q setting on my rig. The Q is a necessary part of this feature in
>>> my mind.
> 
> If you want a low Q peaking filter, it's already present in the Dual PB
> filter.  Select it and use the Width control to set the Q you want.
> 
> A low Q peaking filter is not what those who originally proposed the
> feature and have advocated regularly for it are after.  As has already
> been said, de-Qing the filter currently in Field Test will render it
> useless just like Yaesu did when they tried to eliminate the ringing
> in the FT-1000D (and like the poor imitation "contour" filter in the
> FT-2000/FT-5000/FT-9000).
> 
> The K3 Dual PB filter performs better than the "contour" filter in
> the FT-2000 that is gathering dust in my closet.  The new APF is
> light years ahead of that when used *for the intended purpose.*
> 
> Thanks to Lyle and Wayne, K3 users will soon have two tools - each
> designed for a different set of operating conditions.  Please do not
> dull the scalpel by trying to make it cut lumber.
> 
> 73,
> 
>    ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> On 10/29/2010 2:39 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>> 
>> I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit idly by while some other ham who's in love with his 1980's FT-1000 dictates why I can't have a Q setting on my rig.  The Q is a necessary part of this feature in my mind.  This is NOT an FT-1000 this is a K3.  Just because your old rig used to work well for you without a Q has nothing to do with my new rig.
>> 
>> And if you must make comparisons, than you can use the FT-2000 and it's contour filter (APF) which does have it's variable Q and boost level... Both living in the menus... Sorry but times move on, and you should too.  Only the IDEA of the APF was conceived from the FT-1000, not the entire design and implementation... Please don't limit the rest of us.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:29:12 -0400
>>> From: lists at subich.com
>>> To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APF in 4.16/2.63 works well!
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I would like to be able to ***VARY THE Q*** with the width control and
>>>> LEAVE IT ON with a mild Q, and sharpen it as required.
>>> 
>>> The design goal was to duplicate the FT-1000D APF. The FT-1000D has
>>> no variable Q function. What you are proposing is completely different
>>> than the design parameters ... you want an Autek QF1 not the FT-1000D APF.
>>> 
>>>>> When APF is in there is no moderate setting, it takes over the
>>>>> passband and makes copy of a signal up band difficult.
>>> 
>>> That's the goal of the FT-1000D APF ... single signal reception in
>>> noise and QRM. If you want a context filter, the original Dual PB
>>> filter with it's variable with and shift fill that role.
>>> 
>>>>> ONLY when APF is on could we have the WIDTH tap toggle between APF
>>>>> Q displaying APF Q=3 in lower display and between Roofing/DSP
>>>>> bandwidth displaying BW 0.40??? You could do the same thing with
>>>>> SHIFT to go back and forth between adjusting Roofing/DSP SHIFT
>>>>> displaying FC *0.45 and APF *0.45.
>>> 
>>> Width/shift taps are already "taken" if the user has not chosen PB
>>> Shift=.01. There is no current requirement to select PB Shift=.01
>>> in order to use APF and I hope that *someday* Wayne will give us the
>>> ability to use LO-CUT-HI with PB Shift=.01.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> 
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>> 
>>> On 10/29/2010 12:58 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
>>>> APF has a very significant improvement on weak signals in the noise.
>>>> I completely agree with prior posters. HOWEVER...
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to be able to ***VARY THE Q*** with the width control and
>>>> LEAVE IT ON with a mild Q, and sharpen it as required. If I can back
>>>> it out to 2 dB with a width function I would probably leave that on
>>>> all the time and grind in as needed. I already do that with Width in
>>>> weak cases that are on frequency. ONLY when APF is on could we have
>>>> the WIDTH tap toggle between APF Q displaying APF Q=3 in lower display
>>>> and between Roofing/DSP bandwidth displaying BW 0.40??? You could do
>>>> the same thing with SHIFT to go back and forth between adjusting
>>>> Roofing/DSP SHIFT displaying FC *0.45 and APF *0.45. Using WIDTH to
>>>> control Q is intuitive.
>>>> 
>>>> When APF is in there is no moderate setting, it takes over the
>>>> passband and makes copy of a signal up band difficult. It will
>>>> require repeated use of DUAL PB to go in and out for weak signals and
>>>> back out for normal use. Use of a HOLD function as a frequent change
>>>> is a problem. In trying to get used to the HOLD on DUAL PB to go in
>>>> and out of APF to hear in the rest of the channel, I repeatedly hit
>>>> NTCH instead. HOLD's are only good for settings that persist for a
>>>> while during operation.
>>>> 
>>>> E.g. I don't need APF ONLY as a better substitute for 50 Hz. I need
>>>> it to work ALSO as a milder center emphasis inside the 400 Hz roofer,
>>>> and be able to twist a knob somewhere to move between mild and sharp.
>>>> Even with what appears to be only a 2 dB peaking around 450, the MP
>>>> was improved inside its excellent dual INRAD 400 selectivity.
>>>> 
>>>> If this is not done, it will be very difficult to use it well in a
>>>> contest. No easy-to-use variable Q is a deal-breaker for me. In the
>>>> end for contests it will cost Q's and will have to tell people to
>>>> leave it off, just like NR. Only turn it on for a really weak one if
>>>> you can remember how, and then turn it right back off. Then when I
>>>> get home chasing weak DX I'll turn it all back on again, and work some
>>>> stuff I couldn't hear before.
>>>> 
>>>> 73, Guy.
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:01 AM, drewko<drewko1 at verizon.net>  wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I realize that. I would like to compare what is heard using the
>>>>> APF filter to what is displayed by BeaconSee with its sub-noise signal
>>>>> recovery algorithms.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Drew
>>>>> AF2Z
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:55:38 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think you may be confused about what APF is. It is NOT a waterfall or any
>>>>>> kind of visual indicator. It IS an Audio Peaking Filter (APF) meant to
>>>>>> enhance weak signal audio using the processor between your ears. It will
>>>>>> not automatically show you where weak signals are in a spectrum, but if you
>>>>>> know approximately where to look (either from a Packet spot or waterfall
>>>>>> trace) it can help your ear/brain decode the CW audio buried in noise.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 73, Bill
>>>>> 
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