[Elecraft] K3: USB port [Thread has been officially ended.]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft eric at elecraft.com
Fri Nov 19 18:19:52 EST 2010 

Folks - this thread has been officially ended.  Please honor that request.

In general, all of these posts, by parties criticizing one another 
personally, are inappropriate.

73, Eric
Elecraft List Moderator
====

On 11/19/2010 3:06 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
> Oh it's the Smiths again!
>
> His call is N6MQL, Michael Aretsky.
> Please identify yourself with your callsign or at least your real name.
>
> N4LQ
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Smiths"<notforchat at hotmail.com>
> To:<lists at subich.com>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector"<elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
>
>> "The audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic
>> on the computer,"
>>
>> That's right Joe, Once again you mis quote me. But then again, you have to
>> in order to make your point.  Maybe your computer doesn't have a USB
>> input, but mine does. Perhaps you don't use a K3USB adapter cable, but I
>> have. Your insults and personal attacts do nothing for you on the
>> reflector.  Why don't you keep that kind of thing off the reflector where
>> it belongs.
>>
>> T. Smith
>> Short Wave Listener.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:15:16 -0500
>>> From: lists at subich.com
>>> To: notforchat at hotmail.com
>>> CC: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>
>>>
>>>> The audio is coming through the USB audio input.
>>> Now you're changing the story. In the previous e-mail you
>>> said "RS-232" input - now you say USB.
>>>
>>> Since the K3 has *NO* USB input or output, you obviously
>>> have something connected to the Line Out/Line In. In any
>>> case, you've proven how incredibly unreliable you are -
>>> and you still don't bother to sign your e-mail with a
>>> NAME AND CALLSIGN as required by the list policies.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2010 2:27 PM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>> No, that's not the case, but thanks for a good guess none the less. The
>>>> audio is coming through the USB audio input. Not through an open mic on
>>>> the computer, which doesn't exist. Furthermore I don't even need to
>>>> have the volume up on the K3 to see the audio on the scope, and there
>>>> is NO analog connections to the computer. However, I dont see Post
>>>> audio effects going on. In otherwords, I can only see pre-Notch etc
>>>> settings... Guess it's just a voodo rig...
>>>>
>>>> T Smith
>>>> SWL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:41:31 -0500
>>>>> From: lists at subich.com
>>>>> To: notforchat at hotmail.com
>>>>> CC: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>>>>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>>>>>>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>>>>>>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>>>>>>> exists?
>>>>> No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
>>>>> audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
>>>>> computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
>>>>> than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
>>>>> mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
>>>>> K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
>>>>> computer's Line In jack and made that the default.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
>>>>> schematics!
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>>
>>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:
>>>>>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>>>>>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram
>>>>>> and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or
>>>>>> is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> T Smith
>>>>>> SWL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>>>>>>> From: lists at subich.com
>>>>>>> To: k2qi.nyc at gmail.com; elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>>>>>>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>>>>>>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>>>>>>> you audio ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>>>>>>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>>>>>>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>>>>>>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>>>>>>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>>>>>>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>>>>>>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>>>>>>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>>>>>>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>>>>>>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>>>>>>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>>>>>>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>>>>>>> serialize each of those chip!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>>>>>>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>>>>>>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>>>>>>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>>>>>>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>>>>>>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>>>>>>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>>>>>>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>>>>>>> use their rig with computer control.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello group,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>>>>>>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the
>>>>>>>> K3,
>>>>>>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has
>>>>>>>> USB
>>>>>>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>>>>>>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in
>>>>>>>> I/O
>>>>>>>> performance between the two methods. "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability
>>>>>>>> to carry
>>>>>>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient.
>>>>>>>> Right now,
>>>>>>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
>>>>>>>> setup,
>>>>>>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from
>>>>>>>> computer to
>>>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>>
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