[Elecraft] K3 Audio Low Pass Filter

Joe Subich, W4TV lists at subich.com
Mon Jul 6 15:57:54 EDT 2009


Paul, 

> Joe, you're right.  I did not take into consideration the 
> 8-ohm build-out resistance that Lyle just discussed.  Those 
> build-out resistors do not appear on the headphone amp 
> schematics (page 28/52) so until today, I doubt anyone 
> else knew they existed <g>

They appear at D3 (front) and B3 (rear) of the "K3 DSP IF:
Interconnects and Miscellaneous" (pg. 32/52).  I found them 
a while ago after Lyle mentioned their existence in another 
e-mail. 

> So, they must appear off-page along with the speaker 
> coupling cap that also does not show up on the same 
> schematic. 

The speaker coupling capacitors are 470 uF and appear on 
the K3 RF Board (1 of 4) - page 3/52 connected to pins 
1/2 and 3/4 of J76 KIO3 (upper right corner).  

> My choice of going to 330 uF was primarily driven by the 
> fact that I didn't want to be concerned with the operating Z 
> of a new set of headphones if tried, and I had an older DSP 
> Board wiith 10 uF caps.  

That's why I will change the caps when I next get into each 
of my radios.  I don't have a problem because I primarily 
use the Heil.  I will probably use 100 uF, but with leaded 
caps I will use what I can make fit comfortably. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Christensen [mailto:w9ac at arrl.net] 
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 3:02 PM
> To: lists at subich.com; 'Brett Howard'
> Cc: Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio Low Pass Filter
> 
> 
> > You neglect the effect of the 8.2 Ohm resistor in series with the 
> > headphone outputs.
> 
> Joe, you're right.  I did not take into consideration the 
> 8-ohm build-out 
> resistance that Lyle just discussed.  Those build-out 
> resistors do not 
> appear on the headphone amp schematics (page 28/52) so until 
> today, I doubt 
> anyone else knew they existed <g>.  So, they must appear 
> off-page along with 
> the speaker coupling cap that also does not show up on the 
> same schematic.
> 
> Older headphones with low Z drivers would still benefit from 
> a value above 
> 100 uF.  But with most modern headphones in the 32-ohm area, and I'll 
> repeat...the majority of users would not benefit from higher 
> C values above 
> 100 uF at C9/C13.  My choice of going to 330 uF was primarily 
> driven by the 
> fact that I didn't want to be concerned with the operating Z 
> of a new set of 
> headphones if tried, and I had an older DSP Board wiith 10 uF 
> caps.  Since 
> re-work was required anyway, I settled on the 330 uF value 
> and would still 
> choose that value if given the chance today.
> 
> Although not as critical for communications audio, the use of 
> increasing the 
> build-out resistance does in fact lower the damping factor of 
> the amplifier. 
> Not as important with newer headphones, but it can be a 
> factor with older 
> low-Z headphones with traditional moving coil drivers where 
> more mass is 
> moved.
> 
> Paul, W9AC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With that resistor considered, the
> > -3 dB point with 100 uF capacitors as a function of headphone 
> > impedance is:
> >
> >   Z       Frequency
> > ---------------------- 
> >   4         130 Hz
> >   8          98 Hz
> >  16          66 Hz
> >  32          40 Hz
> >  64          22 Hz
> > 200           8 Hz
> > 600           3 Hz
> >
> > Although 8 Ohm phones might be "marginal" for someone 
> wanting maximum 
> > low end response, 98 Hz is probably suitable for most 
> communications 
> > uses.  One of the reasons I have not felt the need to change the 
> > coupling capacitors in my K3 (although I will be installing 100 uF 
> > caps when I make some other changes) is that the -3dB point 
> is 80 Hz 
> > with the 200 Ohm transducers in my Heil ProSet.  There is a 
> noticeable 
> > difference compared to the 980 Hz -3 dB point when I use an 
> old set of 
> > Yaesu headphones with their 8 Ohm transducers.
> >
> > The only reason I plan to change the capacitors is to avoid 
> problems 
> > when I grab a cheap set of headphones or the rig is used by 
> a visitor 
> > with their own headphones.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >   ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> >> [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Paul 
> >> Christensen
> >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:23 AM
> >> To: Brett Howard
> >> Cc: Elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio Low Pass Filter
> >>
> >>
> >> > I've been informed Elecraft is already replacing those caps
> >> with 100uF
> >> > caps in the current production units.
> >>
> >> 100 uF is the maximum size compatible with the existing 
> PCB pads for 
> >> C9/C13 on the main DSP Board.  Moving up beyond 100 uF presents a
> >> problem.  Even at
> >> 100 uF, I believe the SMT caps are now rated at close to 10
> >> WVDC.  There's
> >> just no more scaling back on the SMT cap's voltage rating 
> in order to
> >> accommodate a fit with a higher C value above 100 uF.
> >>
> >> Why would anyone want a higher value than 100 uF at 
> C9/C13? Consider 
> >> a set of modern, medium-Z headphones with a Z of 32 ohms at 100 Hz.
> >>  The -3dB
> >> turnover point calculates to roughly 150 Hz.  Anyone wanting
> >> to take full
> >> advantage of the lowest vocal fundamental (e.g., AM or ESSB
> >> modes) wants
> >> that point down to ~ 70 Hz.   So, a cap value of 220 uF would
> >> be preferred.
> >> I went to 330 uF in a radial style to allow extra margin for
> >> a wide range of
> >> headphone vintages and types.  To make most use of the 100 uF
> >> coupling caps,
> >> I would ensure that my headphones are of the newer, medium Z
> >> type and not
> >> the older style with 4-8 ohm drivers.
> >>
> >> My guess is that scaling the caps beyond 100 uF is only of 
> interest 
> >> to a small minority of ops.  The majority will probably be happy
> >> with the current
> >> choice of 100 uF.  Going from 10 uF in the prior design to
> >> 100 uF is already
> >> a significant step in the right direction.
> >>
> >> Paul, W9AC
> >>
> >>
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