[Elecraft] K3: listening to both rcvrs

Sun Nov 16 17:59:02 EST 2008

 From my perspective of 20+ years of doing this, I stand firmly by my 
statement that having the weak, noisy DX in the "middle of my head" 
(both ears) makes it easier for me to copy in conjunction with the 
pileup noise than copying with the DX "out to the left" with the pileup 
noise to the right. Thats my observation. It works best FOR ME! It 
doesn't mean others are the same. Remember that the brain is the 
ultimate mixer and filter and mine adapts to pulling out the weak DX 
from the noise best when it's in the "middle of my head". Yes, turning 
off the sub to copy the main is a better situation for copying the DX. 
That's not the issue. */I'm trying to simultaneously listen to the 
pileup too! /* This works for me! your theories are fine for the physics 
of electronics up to the headphones. It's what happens after the sound 
energy goes into the ears that is my issue. My brain halves are still 
connected to each other and separate ear feeds probably recombine in the 
brain differently for different people! I'm only stating how I, as a 
long time dual receiver user, can best use the second receiver in the 
split weak DX pile-up situation.. Kenwood, TenTec and apparently Yeasu 
realize this too.

Mike
DXCC #1Honor Roll from a noisy city lot

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> Jim, 
>
> Unless one is using diversity with phase locked signals, adding 
> the uncorrelated noise from one receiver to the signal from the 
> other receiver reduces the overall s/n.  While you may think my 
> use of the term "pollution" is unnecessarily negative, it is an 
> accurate description.  
>
> Assuming equal volume settings and equal bandwidths in the two
> receivers, the S/N will degrade by 6 dB (twice the noise voltage). 
> If one is listening to a desired DX station with a low noise 
> antenna and the pile-up with a wider filter and a noisy transmit 
> antenna, the S/N will be degraded even more.  
>
> The K3 receivers are better isolated that other "dual receiver" 
> transceivers.  It would be a shame to degrade S/N by adding a 
> mix control when it is relatively easy to do so externally or 
> those who don't mind the hit in S/N. 
>
> 73, 
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV 
>  
>
>
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dr. 
>> James C. Garland
>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 12:19 PM
>> To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3: listening to both rcvrs
>>
>>
>> Joe,
>> Your comment strikes me as unnecessarily negative. (Pollute? 
>> Crosstalk?)  I thought Fred's suggestion, coming as it does 
>> from a very experienced CW contester, makes a lot of sense.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jim W8ZR
>>
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft- 
>>> bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:09 AM
>>> To: 'cloud runner'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
>>> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3: listening to both rcvrs
>>>
>>>
>>> If you must pollute the audio from one receiver with audio from the 
>>> other receiver, add a 5 to 10K pot between the tip and the ring of 
>>> your headphones and adjust it for the level of pollution you need.
>>>
>>> There is no need for Wayne (or probably Lyle) to design 
>>>       
>> crosstalk into 
>>     
>>> the DSP process.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>>    ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>>>> [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
>>>>         
>> cloud runner
>>     
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 11:03 AM
>>>> To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: listening to both rcvrs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for what it may be worth...
>>>>
>>>> For my pair-of-K2's in SO2R, I have routed the audio in 
>>>>         
>> such a way 
>>     
>>>> that I have a balance control with the audio from the two 
>>>>         
>> radios.  I 
>>     
>>>> call it a mixing control.  I find that "optimum" is achieved when 
>>>> the full strength audio is in one ear, and that same audio is 
>>>> present, but weak in the other ear.  I reason that when the audio 
>>>> goes to one ear only, the content must get to the other 
>>>>         
>> hemisphere 
>>     
>>>> of the brain within brain circuitry.  When it is routed to both 
>>>> ears, now both hemispheres get the information for 
>>>>         
>> interpretation at 
>>     
>>>> the same time.  Making it strong in one ear and weak in the
>>>> other, reversed for the other channel, lets me know which
>>>> rcvr I am hearing, while brain interpretation is at full speed.
>>>>
>>>> and so, Wayne...
>>>>
>>>> I think that there must be a firmware way either by routing to a 
>>>> panel pot, or probably more simply in a menu, by which 
>>>>         
>> the operator 
>>     
>>>> can select either complete channel isolation, or both channels to 
>>>> both ears, but with one ear X DB down from the other.  (I 
>>>>         
>> can't say 
>>     
>>>> how much down is best,but I find that it is enough when I 
>>>>         
>> can barely 
>>     
>>>> notice it.  All of a sudden copy is MUCH easier).  Give 
>>>>         
>> it a thought 
>>     
>>>> because of the above, I, at least, am quite convinced 
>>>>         
>> after a lot of
>>     
>>>> usage with a pair of K2's in SO2R, that is a much better
>>>> arrangement for copying CW from the two channels.
>>>>
>>>> with much appreciation for this fine radio,
>>>>
>>>> 73,  Fd - KT5X
>>>>
>>>> K2 # 0700
>>>> K3 # 0144
>>>>
>>>>         
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