[Elecraft] RE: Elecraft Digest, Vol 52, Issue 14
Mike Kirchoff
mikekirchoff at msn.com
Sat Aug 9 17:04:27 EDT 2008
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Mike
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: K3 AGC Settings Tutorial (Tom W8JI)
2. RE: K3 Microhpone (Charles Harpole)
3. Re: K3 Microhpone (Fern Rivard)
4. Re: Re: K3 Audio (Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU)
5. K3 - My turn (Jim Miller)
6. Re: K3 Microhpone (Gary Gregory)
7. K3/100 #282 -- KRX3 and KXV3 (vu2nks)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 00:19:16 -0400
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji at w8ji.com>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 AGC Settings Tutorial
To: <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <087b01c8f9d7$18140830$4101a8c0 at radioroom>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
It is true that the AGC pertains to the radio and not the
band, but the optimal AGC threshold setting does vary by
band. On 80m, for example, I set the AGC threshold on my
Ten-Tec Orion at about 20uV. On 10m, where the noise level
is very low, I set it at 0.5uV. The Orion, incidentally, has
fast, medium, and slow AGC settings, plus a custom "prog"
setting, and one can set the threshold, decay rate and hang
time independently for each speed. It is possible to spend
hours fiddling with the Orion's AGC settings.>>
One of the reasons you have to change it so much is any AGC
that has no effect at all until a threshold and then tips in
all at once is always critical to adjust. A good AGC system
has a slope rather than a hard threshold with no AGC at all
below a point, and then hard AGC after that point that
clamps the volume to one level.
At quiet locations the dominant noise is propagated via
skywave just like the desired signals. This means the noise
floor varies greatly with direction depending on propagation
or even the time of day. On the same band in different
directions the noise floor can vary 10 or 20 dB. This
requires constant adjustment of AGC threshold with any AGC
that tips in fully at a threshold.
AGC systems with a slope don't exaggerate the problem of
noise level changes and they don't "muddy" the signals into
one constant level or no AGC at all.
When I solid stated my R4C's I built a new AGC circuit. I
put a lot of gain in the AGC, there was very little audio
level change with input signal level change. On the bench it
was nearly perfect, once the AGC started working everything
stayed at nearly the same audio level. I worked to make it
have flat audio level with varying signal levels, textbook
perfect AGC.
Everyone hated it. It required constant riding of RF gain.
It made weak DX stations near noise floor muddy up or
vanish, and it was impossible to sort signals close in pitch
in pileups.
Decreasing the gain in the AGC circuit cured it, and it was
no longer necessary to ride the RF gain (same as adjusting
AGC threshold).
The K3 has an AGC SLP adjustment that cures this problem. I
was delighted to see the people at Elecraft included an AGC
slope adjustment, and that it works to make the AGC have
that "analog" sound operators here like for handling pileups
and for weak signals in rough noise. Unless you have an old
analog AGC system the slope adjustment is a "must have"
requirement. Especially for people who work pileups or work
DX that is in and out of rough noise like static crashes.
Although I just started using the K3, I really like the AGC
system so far. That's in contrast to other digital AGC
systems I quickly learned to *dislike*. Low band DXers or
contesting people will really like the "slope adjustment"
feature.
73 Tom
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 04:23:05 +0000
From: Charles Harpole <k4vud at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Microhpone
To: <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <BAY128-W21E451B5F8FD90AE726A58F7770 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Real serious hams use Heil headphone/mic set.
Ideally have the 5 and the 4 elements switchable as
in one model Heil sells. All other discussions
of other choices are just for fun. 73
Charles Harpole
k4vud at hotmail.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:34:19 -0600
From: "Fern Rivard" <crc at cyberlink.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Microhpone
To: "Charles Harpole" <k4vud at hotmail.com>, <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <02aa01c8f9d9$3d1847c0$6400a8c0 at your03667082de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Charles:
You must be kidding as real serious hams DO NOT use heil mics. They are
overpriced and have lousy audio. One gets much nice transmit audio using
good quality dynamic microphone rather than those cheap elecret cartridges.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Harpole" <k4vud at hotmail.com>
To: <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Microhpone
Real serious hams use Heil headphone/mic set.
Ideally have the 5 and the 4 elements switchable as
in one model Heil sells. All other discussions
of other choices are just for fun. 73
Charles Harpole
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:34:55 -0700
From: "Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU" <Leigh at WA5ZNU.org>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Audio
To: n4lq <n4lq at insightbb.com>, jim at audiosystemsgroup.com
Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: <489D1E6F.4020902 at WA5ZNU.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I have noticed this effect in recent beta firmware revisions as well. I
spent quite some time looking at a busy band and chasing ghosts
everywhere, trying to find out what was up. I searched the archives and
saw others had the same problem; the harmonics do seem to be recent, as
I've not been troubled by this effect before. Before I wrote I was
waiting to see if someone did just this experiment you describe.
One point: I have the HAGC mod on my desk still, though, so it's
possible, especially after Lyle KK7P's last email about the HAGC mod,
that my problem is related to the undone HAGC mod. However, if others
with more recent K3s have the problem, then it isn't just that.
Leigh/WA5ZNU
K3#51
> I see the same extra stripe using mixw and an RF generator. I had to
> turn down the line out of the K3 to 001 and crank up the sound card to
> max inorder to eliminate it. The level is a bit weak now and needs
> more gain. There is something not quiet right here.
> Steve Ellington
> N4LQ at insightbb.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Brown"
> <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: K3 Audio
>
>
>> On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:30:55 +0100, Andrew Forrest wrote:
>>
>>> It appears that this effect is nothing to do with clipping or
>>> transformer saturation but some kind of mixing.
>>
>> I'm also not convinced that this particular screen shot is non-
>> linear distortion. It could be aliasing in the FFT software that's
>> part of the decoder.
>>
>> On the other hand, the pdf below DOES show both harmonic distortion
>> and IM distortion on the Line Output when the Line Out level is set
>> too high (driving the transformer being driven beyond it's ratings).
>>
>> http://audiosystemsgroup.com/K3FilterStudy.pdf
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jim Brown K9YC
>>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 00:15:37 -0500
From: "Jim Miller" <JimMiller at STL-OnLine.Net>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - My turn
To: "Elecraft Reflector" <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <082b01c8f9de$f6618020$0402a8c0 at hmjm500>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
K3/100 kit ordered 3/30, shipped 08/08/08. Scheduled to arrive 8/14.
73, de Jim KG0KP
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 15:39:53 +1000
From: "Gary Gregory" <rfenabled at westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Microhpone
To: "Fern Rivard" <crc at cyberlink.bc.ca>
Cc: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID:
<b5a57c3e0808082239u522ace7cpe92fdea3dba4fb75 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Fern,
My posting on Mics got some strange responses mate. I use an old Turner+2
(34 years old) and it gets perfect audio reports all the time.
I was following the posts on Mics so I thought maybe a "Super Mic" was a way
for Elecraft to increase sales.
Just imagine mate:
weight...4 Kilos (Heavy is good, if you throw it it won't go too far)
Switches on the base for:...1. ESSB On/Off
2. EQ ON/OFF (Flat or programmed)
3. Knob for Mic gain
4. Knob for compression
5. Locking PTT Button/Bar
GFVD display with "ON Air" illuminated when mic is activated
Firmware upgradable so we can change the element sensitivity
I am absolutely positive that I have missed some options we could have in a
"Super Mic", perhaps the ability to change our voices so we sound like our
favorite celebrities?...Just think we could all end sounding like Donald
Duck, Bart Simpson?...scary stuff eh?
Anyway, not sure if my tongue in cheek post was well received or not, but I
was chuckling when I sent it out.
Cheers mate, keep posting, I get a huge kick out of reading the reflector,
plus, I am learning a lot from all you guys.
Cheers,
Gary
K3/100 #679
Stokers...we get ya goin'
2008/8/9 Fern Rivard <crc at cyberlink.bc.ca>
> Hi Gary:
>
> Look no further as I've found that the Shure 444D is the ideal base
> microphone for the K3 except for the fact that it does not have the
UP/DOWN
> keys feature. Now if you want a very nice sound dynamic hand microphone
> with the UP?DOWN keys feature, I can help you out with this as I have
stock
> on those. They are originally made for a commercial land mobile radio but
> the resultant transmit is equivalent to that of the Shure 444D desk mic
and
> that is without even having to use the 8 band transmit audio equilizer.
>
> 73 from Fern VE7GZ
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Gregory" <rfenabled at westnet.com.au>
> To: <elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 3:58 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Microhpone
>
>
> Hello Again,
>
> I agree with an earlier post from Steve. I will sit under my favourite Gum
> tree in the back yard, under my nice 80M full wave loop and silently pray
> that the gods at Aptos are reading these posts closely and that somewhere
> in
> the dark of the night in Aptos an idea will be born to design, build and
> market the "perfect" microphone for those of us who have a distinctly "Non
> Professional Radio Announcer Voice" so we can be all happy little campers.
>
> The K3 is now without a doubt the best TCVR on the market, we just need to
> have a really good tailor made mic...oh..and while I am adding to the wish
> list..can we have some knobs and buttons as well as a "Locking PTT
> Bar/Button" on this (hopefully) perfect new base mic...Please..B?
>
> OK, I will climb off my soapbox and journey down into the bomb
> shelter..after I turn on my incoming missile deflector....:-)
>
> 73's
> Gary
> K3/100 #679
> Stokers...we get ya goin'
>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 00:01:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: vu2nks <vu2nks at yahoo.co.in>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3/100 #282 -- KRX3 and KXV3
To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: <1218265279314-682432.post at n2.nabble.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi All,
Rcvd KRX3 and KXV3 yesterday
I want to install both together.With minimum work steps.
My K3/100 is working fine,so I do not want the rig exposed to
me for "long time"
73,
VU2NKS.Nandu
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