The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins... In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!! -- Dave G. KK7SS '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA "Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. But I'm not so sure about the universe." ... Albert Einstein.