[Elecraft] OT: Motorola buys Yeasu. Wow!

[n2ey at aol.com]

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph M Grib <ki3b at juno.com>

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:22:40 -0500 n2ey at aol.com writes:

> a lot of people want/need hand holding which is
>unfortunately also going by the wayside. The big point I'm trying to 
make
>is that
>no-one in the biz is making a killing at a store. The "big" perceived
>profit isn't there.
>I heard that argument constantly when I was working for them and 
frankly,
>it just isn't true.

Agreed. But that fact isn't well known.

I wonder - was ham radio equipment ever high-mark-up? Say, back in the 
1950s,
'60s, '70s?

>But we're not talking about a design
>team here, we're talking about a retail merchant.

Why should there be a difference?

> The guy/gal behind the counter
>answering your questions, giving you advice, assisting you with the 
sale,
>and if necessary, service after the sale.

With all due respect, if you buy an Elecraft, the design team or their 
knowledgeable
reps will answer your questions, give you advice, assist you with the 
sale and
provide service after the sale.....

>Regarding the K3, it's a very impressive piece of equipment I must say
>from what I've been reading on the 'net. I have a few K1's and a K2
>myself. Not for sale any price either. They're great rigs.

I'm saving up. I would gladly sell my Elecraft rigs for a price that 
would
let me buy more of them!

>> The question is, why do the rigmakers allow their product to be
>> distributed that way? Don't they realize that, by doing so, they are 
killing off
>> their distribution network?

>Agreed, but like everything else, once a dealer/distributor grasps a
>means of selling something
>be it the net or a '800' number the others must follow or see their 
sales
>greatly diminish.

The rigmakers could stop it if they wanted to. Simply have a code of 
behavior
for authorized dealers. And only authorized dealers get the product.

>Unfortunately though, there are still a lot of people who flock to 
shows
>and dealerships
>to 'see' and 'touch' a piece of equipment before they buy. Why do you
>think consumer
>electronic shows are so busy?

Elecraft is a presence at those shows. They even get volunteers to help 
out!

>Why do you think car shows are so busy?

The scenery...but how many cars are sold at car shows?

>I don't care if it's a camera or a
>Corvette. People will
>want to see it and touch it if possible before they buy, even if that
>purchase is months or
>years down the pike.

*Some* people.

>They'll buy magazines (QST) for reviews of equipment
>and compare
>endlessly the specifications of one piece of gear to another before 
they
>buy. They'll ask
>questions and get opinions on reliability and ease of use. Let me tell
>you, you're not
>going to get that from a shopping cart on a webpage or a 800 number 
order
>taker.

But you *will* get it from other hams, reflectors, eham.net, etc.

>Your local dealer is going to try to keep you, the customer happy. If
>there's a known
>problem with a rig, a respectable dealer will tell you up front. If
>you're making a mistake
>a respectable dealer will tell you and try to help. If you're not sure
>what antennas to
>raise or what to buy, a dealer will try to help you. If you have a 
issue
>with a radio, a
>dealer will try to help you with the problem to keep your business.

But how do I know if a dealer is respectable and knowledgeable or not?

>> when you go to buy a car, haggling over the price is often part
>> of the deal -
>> even a new car that's in demand. Same for when you buy real estate.
>> Why is it
>> OK to haggle for those things but not a ham rig that costs hundreds
>> or thousands of dollars?

>Can't answer that, but there is a point where a car dealer will no 
longer
>'haggle' with you or anyone else because that point of profit is built
>into the
>sale and no matter what you do, or try to do, they won't reduce the 
price
>any further.

Agreed. The trick is finding that number.

My uncle worked out a scheme for carbuying that worked for him:

1) He determined exactly what car he wanted, accessories, etc.
2) He wrote up a sealed-bid form letter describing the car and had 
copies made,
with SASEs, with instructions on how to bid, deadline date, etc. Bids 
had to include all taxes, fees, etc.
3) He visited all the dealerships in the area and asked to see the top 
sales
manager for 5 minutes. Gave him the form letter, a brief set of 
instructions, and left.
4) When the due date came, he opened all the bids, then called the 
lowest bidder
and told them they'd won, and he'd be by with a check for the exact 
amount.

Worked like a charm.

>The markup on a car is a lot more than any ham rig I
>believe.

*THAT* is the key.

>But why did Heath go out of business? Was it because people didn't
>want to build any more?

No.

> Was it because people found Japanese equipment
>be it TV's or stereo's a lot cheaper and ready to go out of the box?

Partly.

>Was it their equipment didn't have all the features of the latest item
>on the shelf at the local store?

Partly.

The big reason IMHO was this:

Heath (and Eico, and EFJ, and a number of other electronic kitmakers)
made their money on the fact that assembly labor was a big part of the
cost of electronics in those days. Automated assembly changed all that.

In addition, they were faced with the challenge of designing stuff that
could not only be built by the average person with a few tools, but that
could also be aligned by them without a lot of test gear. That was easy
in DX-40 days but became increasingly challenging in SB-104 days.

Make no mistake - a lot of the reason so many hams built a Heathkit
was that it cost so much less than an assembled rig.

> Most people either don't have the time or desire to build
>from scratch and if they do, no matter how badly they screw it up,
>they expect the item to work the first time, or they expect the kit
>maker or someone else to fix their problem.

Google my call.

>Why do you think guys had a small business of assembling K2's? I
>saw the book and the instructions are pretty clear, and 
straightforward.
>Some people want the rig, but not the work that goes into building or
>making it. They want to buy a finished product, not a kit and am
>willing to pay someone else to pick up parts and solder it together.

And some people can't physically build one. Vision and other 
impairments prevent it.

>as you stated,
>the price is the same for everybody. Why should it be any different at 
a
>ham store?

Agreed.

>> Last time I needed to fix an appliance (old Maytag D8300 dryer -
>> yes, even Maytags
>> break) I got the parts online. Ordered Saturday, at my door
>> Tuesday.

>No argument here, but a question.... Where did you buy the dryer?

It came with the house. If it ever became unfixable, I'd shop around
for a new one.

> the point I'm making is that you went
>somewhere local, agreed on a model, and either brought it home yourself
>or had it delivered from a local merchant.

Sure - because transport charges would be enormous for something like a
dryer.

> If your dryer broke during it's
>warranty period, your merchant was expected to provide (or at least
>assist you) with service for that unit.

In many cases, warranties are serviced by the manufacturer and not the
dealer, in my experience. I've had to deal with Dell computer 
warranties,
and they were top-notch.

> I had a few
>Maytag items break too, but I do admit I got a lot of years out of them
> before they did!!

Part of this is that I subscribe to the old Yankee saying:

"Use it up,
Wear it out
Make it do
Or do without"

I think of that philosophy as a big part of ham radio, too.

>If you're comfortable buying something for several thousand dollars 
off a
>webpage then great. But I'll tell you, from my experience, there are
>still a lot of guys out there that want to turn the knobs a bit before 
they pull
>out their wallet. Even if the purchase is made later using a 800 
number or
>the net' later on, they'll travel to a show or store (even hours away) 
to see
>the item before they buy it.

Agreed. It's all up to the person and the item.

The big thing is educating hams on what it really takes to run a 
business. Any
business.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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