[Elecraft] QSP? relaying ECN check-ins.

[David Wilburn]

I have been working at improving my CW skills for what seems a very long 
time.  I have not checked into a CW net, and I would like to check into 
ECN, but it is admittedly difficult here from the right coast.  I have 
listened one time and was a bit overwhelmed with trying to copy, 
understand, and figure out what I needed to do.

I have looked at traffic net protocols, and I understand that practice 
will improve understanding.  Is it possible to have a script somewhere 
of what will happen, so us newbies / slowpokes can follow along, and try 
to figure out when to send out our call?

My plan would be to listen to the 20m net, and then try to stay awake 
and attempt to check in on the 40m net.  Rig is K2/100 w/80m loop.  So 
main handicap is the operator.

David Wilburn
dave.wilburn at verizon.net
K4DGW
K2 #5982


K9ZTV wrote:
> N0SS, being an old and consummate National Traffic System man (as well 
> as my cross-town good friend), will, I trust, smile kindly on my 
> contribution to this discussion.
> 
> This may be a perfect opportunity to educate and train a whole new 
> generation of CW operators in long-established, tried-and-tested, ARRL 
> NTS procedures.  Just because the exchange of formal message traffic is 
> not the purpose of the ECN, does not mean the net itself cannot be 
> conducted accordingly.  Likewise, the repetitive use of a few select 
> Q-signals by the NCS will not only equip new operators with useful CW 
> skills, but also help resolve the relay issues under discussion.
> I expect the K3 to bring a lot of new hams to HF CW over the next 
> several years, which may also bring them to the ECN.
> 
> I would suggest you begin emphasizing that the ECN is a "directed" net 
> (QND), which you may believe it already to be, but actually isn't (which 
> is why you are experiencing trouble in identifying QNIs).  Stations 
> wishing to check into a truly "directed net" transmit nothing until 
> instructed to do so in some specific fashion by the NCS.  Such as . . .
> 
> The check-in instructions might be geographical :
> 
> CQ ECN de N0SS QNA ("answer in prearranged order") FIRST CALL AREA STNS 
> ONLY PSE QNI K
> CQ ECN de N0SS QNA SECOND CALL AREA STNS ONLY PSE QNI K
> etc., etc.,  through all the call areas.  This permits pointing the bean 
> in one direction at a time without having to continually swing it 
> through the compass rose.
> 
> Another method (unique to ECN) might be  . . .
> 
> CQ ECN de N0SS QNA KX1 RIGS ONLY PSE QNI K
> CQ ECN de N0SS QNA K1 RIGS ONLY PSE QNI K
> CQ ECN de N0SS QNA K2 RIGS ONLY PSE QNI K
> CQ ECN de N0SS QNA K3 RIGS ONLY PSE QNI K
> 
> Many nets have done this for years, it's nothing new, but it IS 
> effective, and solves two of your problems: (1) reducing (if not 
> eliminating) QRM from stations all over the country trying to QNI at the 
> same time; and (2) forcing significant numbers of stations to "stick 
> around" until their call area is up to bat, thus providing relay 
> stations if such are needed.  But again, it is in an orderly fashion, 
> not the chaos it is now.  Two SSB nets I occasionally frequent (Collins 
> Collectors Association net and the Interstate Single Sideband Net) have 
> done the geographical thing for decades.  The NTS system routinely asks 
> for QNI on a QNA (prearranged order) from those stations serving as 
> liaisons to higher level nets.  And to make it fair, each week you 
> alternate the order, so the zero-call area stations aren't waiting until 
> the end all the time.  Likewise, you alternate the rig-order assuming 
> your "prearranged order" goes by model.
> 
> A companion advantage is the opportunity for CW copy practice for 
> newcomers.  The longer they wait their turn, the more CW they will be 
> copying, the more Q-signals they will be exposed to, and the less 
> intimidated they will be when it comes their turn to hit the key.
> 
> Finally, it has always been my personal belief that one of the 
> obligations of the net control station is to be HEARD.  This means 
> transmitting with more than 100 watts off a dipole at thirty feet.  It 
> means an amplifier, especially during sunspot minima.  It also means a 
> decent antenna.  Good NCS operators without amplifier capabilities  
> should not be excluded, but they should be encouraged to save their 
> pennies for one.  They should also be selected on the basis of 
> consistently good strength signals and good operating skills.
> 
> All of this, of course, is my opinion only, but stems from five decades 
> of CW traffic work and serving as Net Manager of two ARRL section nets 
> over the years.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Kent  K9ZTV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Hammond wrote:
> 
>> Hi ray:
>>
>> K2HYD wrote:
>>
>> I'm wondering whether some experienced net ops could chime in with 
>> suggestions for getting more QSP going on the weekly Elecraft CW Net?
>>
>> I don't really know what the right protocol is, but I still have a 
>> happy glow thinking about the one time I actually QSP'd for a station 
>> that NCS couldn't hear. (can't recall whether it was Kevin or Tom 
>> acting as NCS at that moment). It was a thrill to be able to relay the 
>> check-in, with my little KX-1 signal!
>>
>> Anyway, on last night's 40m net (was busy with family at 20m net time) 
>> I could barely hear Kevin but there were a couple of stations that 
>> were very loud to me, and I suspect might have been able to hear me. I 
>> tried sending "pse QSP" once or twice (is that the right way to ask 
>> for help??) but didn't want to do that too much for fear of stepping 
>> on someone.
>>
>> I wonder, would it work for NCS to ask "any QSP?" or some such, just 
>> before "last call?"
>>
>> Now that I've said 130% of what I know, maybe someone who really knows 
>> how to get QSPs going could chime in??
>>
>> I agree that it would be a GREAT thing for others to assist 
>> unacknowledged stations to get checked into the ECN when NCS has not 
>> acknowledged them after several unsuccessful attempts on their part to 
>> QNI.
>>
>> I think that part of the problem is that many (if not most) stations 
>> who do QNI the net probably check out within minutes of being checked 
>> in... as a result, they've no longer present and in a position to 
>> assist other stations who might not be acknowledged by the current NCS.
>>
>> Many(!) times, when I'm calling ECN in an attempt to help Kevin find 
>> stations who can't hear him or who he hasn't been able to ferret out 
>> of the noise, I hear very weak signals which i think are attempting to 
>> QNI, but which I just cannot pull out of the noise. I'll often ask for 
>> 'relays', but seldom get a response. Again, I suspect that this may be 
>> due to many of the previously checked-in stations having already 
>> closed their stations for the evening.
>>
>> What I'd like to see is for ALL stations to at least stay on frequency 
>> for 5-10 minutes (if possible) following their being acknowledged. 
>> Then, if they hear another stations, after several unacknowledged 
>> attempts to QNI, AND the NCS not getting any new check-ins, then it 
>> would be GREAT to have further check-ins relayed to the NCS.
>>
>> The problem is having relaying stations become too anxious to help... 
>> sometimes, I'll hear a number of stations trying to QNI... I (and 
>> Kevin) try to pick them off one at a time, until I hear no further 
>> callers. Then I'll make a couple more calls which, if they go 
>> unanswered, will cue me in to turn the beam to another direction, to 
>> make a few more calls. relays of missed stations would best be made 
>> when the NCS is in that position of getting no further responses to 
>> his calls... so he's not having to pick through a current batch of 
>> calling stations to stations in order to her the relaying station.
>>
>> Additionally, I know I've experienced a number of instances where I 
>> KNOW there's been a station trying to QNI, but he gives up before I 
>> can get to him to acknowledge him.  Frustration is a problem... if we 
>> call several times and don't get acknowledged, after 4-5 attempts, we 
>> assume that the NCS can't hear us, and we decide to QRT for another 
>> beer.. or whatever... muttering to ourselves that the NCS needs a new 
>> set of ears... This COULD be the case... but it could also be the case 
>> that all the NCS has to do is to turn his antenna!!! And sometimes 
>> either a relay (QSP) or just being patient enough to allow the NCS to 
>> get TO you (either by weeding out the pile of callers OR by turning 
>> his antenna will also solve the problem.
>>
>> But, in the final analysis... if you hear someone who has repeatedly 
>> called to check in and is not being acknowledged by the NCS (who is 
>> not in the process of picking up potentially stronger stations), then 
>> PLEASE take the time to relay the calling station to the NCS... even 
>> if you don't have the entire call, get the NCS's attention and at 
>> least tell him you hear someone (which you COULD copy if the NCS would 
>> only shut up long enough).  We'll certainly do our best to pull in all 
>> callers.
>>
>> 73, and thanks.
>>
>> Tom   N0SS
> 
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