Wayne, what length did you use to wall mount? I am thinking about putting up a loop! ;-} I could skip the ground counterpoise. Bill K9YEQ KX1 (FT - #35), K2 (FT - #35) "Try my trick, Bill -- #28 wire is *really* hard to see, both as a ground radial and a ceiling antenna. Use color-matched push-pins ;) 73, Wayne N6KR"