[Elecraft] K2 and Ten-Tec Orion

[Bill Tippett]

Hi Earl and all,

K6SE wrote:
 >There were also a number of other things I didn't like about the Orion
and on June 16th I called Ten-Tec requesting a refund under their 30-day
trial policy and shipped the radio back to them.  I told them that if
they found something was wrong with the radio to make it perform so
poorly on weak CW signals to repair it and send it back to me.  They
played with in on the bench for about a week and said they couldn't find
anything wrong with it and issued me a refund.

         In all fairness to TenTec, I believe everyone should know that
on July 3 TenTec documented (below) information on using Orion for
various modes (weak-signal and contests) which was not available during
Earl's tests.  His results could have been different if he had known this, 
especially about setting the Programmable AGC.  Other issues, like
using a wide roofing filter for weak signals (to minimize insertion
loss) are not intuitive to most of us.  Poor documentation is
definitely a TenTec problem, but they are actively responding with
hardware, firmware and documentation updates based on user feedback.
(See TenTec's update here http://www.tentec.com/565optimize.htm )

         Tom W8JI posted the following on the Topband reflector:

http://dayton.akorn.net/pipermail/topband/2003-July/017119.html

*******************************************************************************************************Topband: 
Earl's Evaluation
July 1, 2003

While I appreciate Earl's efforts to handle a very neglected (but valid)
consideration, I'd like to urge everyone to use caution. Don't accept one
test of one isolated factor as majority consideration when making a
selection!

This stuff has a habit of taking on a life of its own, and may influence
sales long after problems are corrected (or even if there never was a
problem).

Ten Tec seems to understand the normal AGC is not optimum, and other people
are commonly reporting they have to use programmable AGC for weak signals.

I also think the narrow filter of the TT could be a major source of
problems, but it can be switched OUT to a wider filter. It very well could
be Earl's TT just needed the AGC reprogrammed, and a different type of
filter.

The type of noise, how noise changes every hour of day, how our brains work,
and many other things can actually make results vary quite a bit.

DSP radios that do not use narrow roofing filters have the potential to be
much better on relatively empty bands, because they almost certainly have
very little group delay error in filtering compared to radios with
traditional filtering, especially sharp filtering. (I see evidence of this
in the high opinions of 75A4's, stock R4C's,  and other old receivers which
have very poor performance in many aspects. They do well on weak signals on
relatively clear areas of the band, because the filters have less time error
delta over the passband, yet are horrible in many other aspects.)

Just be careful! Weak signal detection under one set of conditions doesn't
mean a receiver is "good" or "bad", or that someone else might not find the
ranking totally incorrect for him in another "clear channel" noise test.

The exceptional thing about the Orion is ALL of this can be corrected by the
owner. Not so with other rigs.

I'm reserving judgment until the normal bugs of having a new product are
worked out. It will take time to for TT to consider customer feedback and
make changes. Let's give them some reasonable time, before we fall in line
behind manufacturers who traditionally have ignored major problems that
impact all of us!

The setup of the TT Orion is somewhat complex and is still being worked out.
To me it looks like ALL problems are minor and easily correctable, and it
will be the best radio available once the factory gets enough feedback (and
has some time to make changes).

73 Tom W8JI
************************************************************************

         I am very thankful we have companies as responsive as both
Elecraft and TenTec.  They are a breath of fresh air compared to some
of the Big 3 who stonewall click issues, IF-hiss, poor strong-signal
performance, etc and leave it up to after-market companies (Inrad) to
provide solutions at the user's expense.  What a contrast compared to
the top management and engineering involvement from both Elecraft and
TenTec in addressing customer issues in forums like this!

         I don't have either an Orion or K2 yet, but I underscore W8JI's 
caution:  "This stuff has a habit of taking on a life of its own,
and may influence sales long after problems are corrected (or even
if there never was a problem)".

                                                 73,  Bill  W4ZV