[Dx4win] RE: Dx4win Digest, Vol 34, Issue 24
Martin H. Green
martingreen at rcn.com
Thu Feb 22 11:49:11 EST 2007
Although people have referred in this thread to "certificates", perhaps it
would to understand that these certificates are based on sophisticated
encryption technology. LOTW uses public key encryption and digital
certificates.
In public key encryption, computers are used to create a PAIR of encryption
keys. One key is called the PUBLIC key and one key is called the PRIVATE
key. It is absolutely ESSENTIAL to understand that both keys are UNIQUELY
and MATHEMATICALLY bound to each other in such a way that anything encrypted
with one key CAN ONLY BE DECRYPTED by the OTHER matching key in the pair.
Let's say that we want to be absolutely certain that the sender of a message
is who he says he is. The owner would encrypt the message using his PRIVATE
and send it to the recipient. Since the message can only be decrypted by the
sender's matching public key, the recipient is assured of the identity of
the sender.
However, what prevents someone from publishing a public key and claiming to
be K0PP? Actually, nothing. So, what is needed is a way to provide assurance
that the key in question is really K0PP's key. That's where digital
certificates come in. A digital certificate is an encrypted digital document
prepared and issued by a certificate issuer which certifies that the key is
really K0PP's. To get his certificate, K0PP must first satisfy the
certificate issuer that he is K0PP. Once satisfied, the certificate issuer
would prepare and issue an encrypted digital file which "certifies" that the
encryption key being used really belongs to K0PP.
That's how LOTW works. ARRL is the certificate issuing authority. In the
application process it requires K0PP to satisfy ARRL that he is really K0PP.
Once satisfied, ARRL issues a digital certificate to K0PP. From then on, in
order to submit his log, K0PP must digitally sign it, i.e. encrypt it using
the encryption key and certificate provided by LOTW. Only LOTW can decrypt
this digitally signed log using the other matching key. An additional layer
of protection is provided by the requirement to use a secret password, known
only to K0PP, in order to even use the certificate. Even if someone hacked
into K0PP's computer and stole his digital certificate, without this extra
secret password, it would be impossible for anyone to "forge" K0PP's log.
The same thing applies to every other log submitted to LOTW. Only when the
digitally encrypted and certified logs of BOTH parties to a QSO are received
and decrypted and MATCHED by LOTW's computers are the QSO'S confirmed. By
this process, it should be clear why a QSL can NEVER be confirmed based
solely on the information contained in only one submitted log.
Hope this helps. Also, it should be clear, where U.S. currency can be
successfully counterfeited with a computer and color laser printer, why
eQSL's "Authenticity Guaranteed" process of merely accepting a fax copy of a
license (many of which, such as FCC licenses, don't even have pictures) is
not considered sufficient by ARRL.
So, please, send all of your logs to LOTW. I received DXCC in a week after
uploading my log, no postage, no IRC's no "green stamps". Some of the QSOs
dated back YEARS! Who knows, if you all send in your logs, maybe I'll get
WAS, WAZ, WAC, .... :-)
73,
Marty, N1HT
-----Original Message-----
From: dx4win-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:dx4win-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of dx4win-request at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 4:03 AM
To: dx4win at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Dx4win Digest, Vol 34, Issue 24
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. DXCC / LoTW credits (Ken Kopp)
2. Re: DXCC / LoTW credits (Dave Perry N4QS)
3. Re: DXCC / LoTW credits (Ken Kopp)
4. Re: DXCC / LoTW credits (Jim Reisert AD1C)
5. Re: DXCC / LoTW credits (Dick Flanagan)
6. More about LoTW credits (Ken Kopp)
7. AWD database (Ernie Walls)
8. Re: AWD database (Jim Reisert AD1C)
9. Re: More about LoTW credits (K2DBK - David)
10. Re: More about LoTW credits (Jim Reisert AD1C)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:33:00 -0000
From: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>
Subject: [Dx4win] DXCC / LoTW credits
To: "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net" <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <000501c75621$67d68510$5684f204 at your4105e587b6>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
FWIW ...
I'm a long-time friend of N7NG, the now-departed (:-((
"Oracle" of the LoTW program. He tells me that the
operation is headed by Dave Patton, and "customer service"
is being handled by Kathy Anderson ... 860-594-0206.
Now, to pop the lid off the proverbial can of worms ....
Has anyone managed to disguise/legitimatize e.QSL's
and use them for credit via LoTW by importing them into
their logging program and then into a LoTW submission?
I --DO NOT-- approve of this or would never consider
doing so, but others may view it differently.
I know the League has gone to considerable length to avoid
accepting e.QSL's, but ... sadly... I don't see any way of
preventing it from happening, once the QSO/QSO's are
imported into your log, regardless of which program you're
using.
73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
k0pp at arrl.net
or
k0pp at ixpres.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:04:00 -0600
From: "Dave Perry N4QS" <n4qs at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] DXCC / LoTW credits
To: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>, "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net"
<dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <000801c75625$be7955b0$0e01a8c0 at N4QS>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Ken,
I do not understand your concern. If the QSOs actually took place, then you
have every right to upload them to Lotw as part of your log. They will only
be confirmed if the other station likewise uploads a matching QSO to Lotw.
The fact that the same QSO may have been confirmed by eQSL by both stations
is totally irrelevant. How can you cheat the system under this approach?
You cannot upload QSOs from another station without that station's
certificate. The Lotw system is a fantastic innovation. Wayne needs to be
commended.
Dave, N4QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>
To: "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net" <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: [Dx4win] DXCC / LoTW credits
> FWIW ...
>
> I'm a long-time friend of N7NG, the now-departed (:-((
> "Oracle" of the LoTW program. He tells me that the
> operation is headed by Dave Patton, and "customer service" is being
> handled by Kathy Anderson ... 860-594-0206.
>
> Now, to pop the lid off the proverbial can of worms ....
>
> Has anyone managed to disguise/legitimatize e.QSL's and use them for
> credit via LoTW by importing them into their logging program and then into
> a LoTW submission? I --DO NOT-- approve of this or would never consider
> doing so, but others may view it differently.
>
> I know the League has gone to considerable length to avoid accepting
> e.QSL's, but ... sadly... I don't see any way of preventing it from
> happening, once the QSO/QSO's are imported into your log, regardless of
> which program you're using.
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
> k0pp at arrl.net
> or
> k0pp at ixpres.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dx4win mailing list
> Dx4win at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: 2/20/2007
> 1:44 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:45:49 -0000
From: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] DXCC / LoTW credits
To: "Dave Perry N4QS" <n4qs at comcast.net>, "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net"
<dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c7562b$92e01550$5684f204 at your4105e587b6>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello Dave, others,
It's my understanding that if one were to (pay for) and print a
QSL from the e.QSL website and then physically send/mail it
to Newington it would be rejected because the League won't
accept e.QSL's.
As an aside, I wonder how a field QSL checker would
deal with an eQSL? Are there guidelines for them regarding
e.QSL's? I am assuming that the printed out QSL's are in
some way labeled ...?
I am aware that e.QSL does have a way to "validate" a user.
Apparently their method of "validation" isn't acceptable to the
League.
There seems to be no way for the League to detect an e.QSL
that's been "laundered" by submitting the QSL via a LoTA
submission.
It would appear that -if- one can submit a laundered e.QSL
via LoTW there is little reason for the League to continue their
stringent methods that have made the DXCC program so creditable,
and that's sad.
I have 12K+ QSO's to submit, but I'm now having second thoughts
about participating in the program.
73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
k0pp at arrl.net
or
k0pp at ixpres.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:55:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Reisert AD1C <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] DXCC / LoTW credits
To: "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net" <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <372939.53159.qm at web52408.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Ken Kopp <k0pp at ixpres.com> wrote:
> Has anyone managed to disguise/legitimatize e.QSL's
> and use them for credit via LoTW by importing them into
> their logging program and then into a LoTW submission?
Can't happen. Your QSOs are signed with YOUR private key, and their QSOs
are
signed by THEIR private key. The private keys are issued by ARRL, and must
be
certified via postal mail to your home address. There is no way to cheat
the
system in the way you describe.
73 - Jim AD1C
--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:05:08 -0800
From: Dick Flanagan <dick at twohams.com>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] DXCC / LoTW credits
To: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>
Cc: "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net" <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20070221185525.036ecfc8 at mail.greatbasin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 06:45 PM 2/21/2007, Ken Kopp wrote:
>There seems to be no way for the League to detect an e.QSL
>that's been "laundered" by submitting the QSL via a LoTA
>submission.
I don't understand how that could happen. I can only submit MY contacts
via LOTW, not yours, not anyone else's. There is no way I can fake my own
confirmation, eQSL notwithstanding.
73, Dick
--
Dick Flanagan K7VC NV SM
k7vc at arrl.org
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:49:49 -0000
From: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>
Subject: [Dx4win] More about LoTW credits
To: "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net" <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <006201c75634$85611a10$5684f204 at your4105e587b6>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Thanks Jim,
I do have my private key and I understand that it is my
submitted QSL's validation for my log's acceptance into
the LoTW file in Newington.
If I were to enter an e.QSL into my log and then submit that log to
the LoTW program how would LoTW know if the QSO has been
confirmed via e.QSL? Would LoTW care?
Or to put it another way .... are you saying that an e.QSL'd QSO
from W7XYZ in my log submission would -only- be accepted by
the LoTW program if there is already a private key associated
with W7XYZ? If W7XYZ does -not- hold a private key would
LoTW accept a "laundered-via-my-log" e.QSL to me from him?
Thank you for your patience and help. I'm obviously having trouble
understanding this issue.
73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
k0pp at arrl.net
or
k0pp at ixpres.com
--- Ken Kopp <k0pp at ixpres.com> wrote:
> Has anyone managed to disguise/legitimatize e.QSL's
> and use them for credit via LoTW by importing them into
> their logging program and then into a LoTW submission?
Can't happen. Your QSOs are signed with YOUR private key, and their
QSOs are
signed by THEIR private key. The private keys are issued by ARRL, and
must be
certified via postal mail to your home address. There is no way to
cheat the
system in the way you describe.
73 - Jim AD1C
--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us
_______________________________________________
Dx4win mailing list
Dx4win at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:03:11 +1100
From: "Ernie Walls" <vk3fm at wallsy.com.au>
Subject: [Dx4win] AWD database
To: <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <B5C902089513394783B1E1576F71B60213895E at server.Ledbury>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Award database within DX4Win, absolutely excellent though it is has
many awards that I have not the slightest interest in - is it possible
to edit the file, culling those awards of no interest out completely -
and would this also remove those same awards from the 'Custom Award' box
listing within the logging window?
Thanks in anticipation of someone knowing the answer.
Ernie
Ernie Walls VK3FM
vk3fm at wallsy.com.au
vk3fm at arrl.net
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:18:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Reisert AD1C <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] AWD database
To: Ernie Walls <vk3fm at wallsy.com.au>, dx4win at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: <463681.87610.qm at web52406.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Ernie Walls <vk3fm at wallsy.com.au> wrote:
> The Award database within DX4Win, absolutely excellent though it is has
> many awards that I have not the slightest interest in - is it possible
> to edit the file, culling those awards of no interest out completely -
> and would this also remove those same awards from the 'Custom Award' box
> listing within the logging window?
Yes on both. Just make sure DX4WIN is shut down before making the changes.
73 - Jim AD1C
--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:22:04 -0500
From: K2DBK - David <k2dbk at arrl.net>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] More about LoTW credits
To: "Ken Kopp" <k0pp at ixpres.com>
Cc: "Dx4win at Mailman.Qth.Net" <dx4win at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <20070222042210.47BC727442D at assmule.apisnetworks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="891"; format=flowed
Ken,
It doesn't matter whether or not a QSO you and another
station have made has been confirmed on eQSL (or via email or even
good old-fashioned cardboard). "Confirming" it in your own log just
says that you are comfortable that it's been confirmed. The confirmed
flag in your log has no bearing on the information that's uploaded to
the LoTW. The only way that LoTW will consider a QSO to be confirmed
is if both parties have uploaded their properly signed (with their
private keys) logs to LoTW and there are matching QSO records.
The private key is only used to sign your log so that the
LoTW server can be sure that it was really you who uploaded the QSO
information, and not anyone else.
There's a good article in the September 2005 QST by Ward,
N0AX, which is also available on the ARRL website as a PDF file:
http://www.arrl.org/lotw/silver.pdf that explains the whole process
in some detail. Hopefully Ward's writeup will help you to understand
the process and why "forging" in the way that you've described just
isn't an easy thing to do. (I'll never say that it's impossible, but
it certainly would not be trivial).
73,
David, K2DBK
At 10:49 PM 2/21/2007, Ken Kopp wrote:
>Thanks Jim,
>
>I do have my private key and I understand that it is my
>submitted QSL's validation for my log's acceptance into
>the LoTW file in Newington.
>
>If I were to enter an e.QSL into my log and then submit that log to
>the LoTW program how would LoTW know if the QSO has been
>confirmed via e.QSL? Would LoTW care?
>
>Or to put it another way .... are you saying that an e.QSL'd QSO
>from W7XYZ in my log submission would -only- be accepted by
>the LoTW program if there is already a private key associated
>with W7XYZ? If W7XYZ does -not- hold a private key would
>LoTW accept a "laundered-via-my-log" e.QSL to me from him?
>
>Thank you for your patience and help. I'm obviously having trouble
>understanding this issue.
>
>73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
>k0pp at arrl.net
>or
>k0pp at ixpres.com
>
>
>
>
>--- Ken Kopp <k0pp at ixpres.com> wrote:
>
>>Has anyone managed to disguise/legitimatize e.QSL's
>>and use them for credit via LoTW by importing them into
>>their logging program and then into a LoTW submission?
>
>Can't happen. Your QSOs are signed with YOUR private key, and their QSOs
are
>signed by THEIR private key. The private keys are issued by ARRL, and must
be
>certified via postal mail to your home address. There is no way to cheat
the
>system in the way you describe.
>
>73 - Jim AD1C
>
>
>--
>Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
>USA +978-251-9933, <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us
>_______________________________________________
>Dx4win mailing list
>Dx4win at mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Dx4win mailing list
>Dx4win at mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dx4win
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:26:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Reisert AD1C <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [Dx4win] More about LoTW credits
To: Ken Kopp <k0pp at ixpres.com>
Cc: dx4win at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: <20070222042619.70194.qmail at web52412.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Ken Kopp <k0pp at ixpres.com> wrote:
> If I were to enter an e.QSL into my log and then submit that log to
> the LoTW program how would LoTW know if the QSO has been
> confirmed via e.QSL? Would LoTW care?
LoTW doesn't know anything or care about confirmations in your log. All it
knows is the callsign, date, time, band, mode, etc. of the QSOs you made.
> Or to put it another way .... are you saying that an e.QSL'd QSO
> from W7XYZ in my log submission would -only- be accepted by
> the LoTW program if there is already a private key associated
> with W7XYZ? If W7XYZ does -not- hold a private key would
> LoTW accept a "laundered-via-my-log" e.QSL to me from him?
There is no such thing as "accepted". All LoTW can do is match QSO
information
in a log YOU submit with QSO information in a log someone else submits. If
there is a match, the QSO is considered "confirmed". Your QSOs must be
signed
with your private key, and the DX station's QSOs must be signed with his
private key.
In simple terms, you tell LoTW something unique about a QSO you had with a
DX
station. The DX station tells LoTW something unique about a QSO it had with
you. If LoTW decides that you are both telling the same story, then it
considers the QSO to have happened.
73 - Jim AD1C
--
Jim Reisert AD1C, 7 Charlemont Court, North Chelmsford, MA 01863
USA +978-251-9933, <jjreisert at alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us
------------------------------
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