[DX] RE: [dx-list] last 2 and CW
Tony Martin
[email protected]
Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:14:02 -0500
Danny and Tom, et al,
Of course this subject has been debated, over and over again and the
answer is really always the same. That is that the DX station is in
charge, period. If he wants only the last two and says so, then that is
how he wants to operate. If he wants full calls only, and says so, then
so be it. As for QSX UP, etc., to me that is all part of the game. We
are already SPOON FED with the DX clusters.DX nets, etc...very few of us
actually search around the bands and find and spot what I consider
interesting stations or unique calls. And while on the subject of DX
NETS....I for one think they are of a great value. Why? Have you ever
listened to the nets very much? Wouldn't you rather that the net
participants be there than trying to work some rare DX in a pileup?
There are enough operators in the pileups with bad operating
habits...lets not add to the confusion by condemning the nets and
thereby releasing additional QRM'ers who have no clue about prefixes, or
what "split" means....a lot of them don't even know what "suffix" and
"prefix" means.
One of the things I have seen Jim Smith (VK9NS) do that I think is great
is he will often shift his listening freq from UP to listening below his
transmit freq....I've worked him many times doing just that. Its
supposed to be fun and somewhat challenging, isn't it?
The things that do frustrate me is when a DX station is unskilled enough
that they must "split" an inordinate amount (like 25 or 50 kHz)...there
is just no excuse for that except that the DX operator is inexperienced
in managing pileups. And one last frustration is the lid that gets on
the DX freq with "DX?" "Call?" "QSL?" etc.
Finally, an absolutely invaluable source of information that many
overlook may be found at:
http://oh2w.kolumbus.com/dxs/qin.html
once there, just type in the callsign of the station you have a question
about. You will most likely find the operator's name, qth, qsl route,
and with a little analysis, determine his MO (habits-time/freq).
Now, back to chasing DX. Good luck to all...see you in the pileups.
Tony, W4FOA (ex EL2AD, ex 7Q7AA, ex PY1ZBA, etc)
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Danny,
>
> I noticed you did NOT choose to include your CALLSIGN with your
> comments. My responses are inserted below. Tom N4KG
>
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 Danny Douglas <[email protected]> writes:
> > Im sorry, I really dont know why some folks have such a terror of
> > hearing last two calls. If you listen to a pile-up and can hear the
> DX, as
> > well as those callin, you will quite often hear someone (for instance
> N7DC)
> > giving their full call. Then you might hear the DX station saying "DC?
> go
> > ahead". Possibly the pile was all talking at the beginning, and
> > cleared up just in time for the DX to heard "DC". Thats all of the
> call the
> > DX heard. Is he suppose to ignore it? What this does, to others
> > listening, is tell the group that its ok to use the "last two" becaue
> the DX
> > just responded to someone they thought did just that. Its easy to
> jump
> > to conclusions and assume its ok with the DX station, until he says
> > something about full calls only, or like the 9K station, works em, then
> doesnt
> > log the contact. If you are the DX, and dont want last two- dont
> > respond to them, but do be courteous enough to say you want full calls
> only.
> >
> First, 9K2ZZ DOES announce he wants FULL CALLS ONLY
> but the "Last Two" devotees don't seem to want to hear that,
> or else THEY AREN'T LISTENING with their full attention.
>
> Second, as your scenario describes, when a partial call is
> received it takes EXTRA TRANSMISSIONS for the DX
> station to complete the Call and exchange, SLOWING
> his rate which means it will take LONGER for everyone
> else to make their contacts and move on. THIS is the
> reason the better DX operators despise the practice of
> calling with the LAST TWO.
>
> While we are discussing this, I would bring up another point that
> > gripes me
> > and that is the DX station who says he is listening up 3, and then
> > listens
> > from 3 up to infinity. If you want to listen to a particular
> > frequency ,
> > up 3 is fine. But, dont listen up 6. If you want callers to call
> > up 3 to
> > 6 kc, say so. The ones that really dont make any sense at all are
> > those
> > who say something to the effect "up 5 to 15". He then starts up 5 ,
> > calls
> > someone there, then moves 100 cy up and calls the next one, then up
> > 100 and
> > calls the next. Within moments, everyone knows his listening
> > pattern, and
> > lo and behold EVERYONE suddenly appears up 100 cy from the last QSO.
> > Then
> > up 100 for the next, all the way up to the top of his listening
> > bracket,
> > and then back down 100 cy at a time. What good does operating this
> > way
> > do? Got me. If he wants a pile up on one freq, thats the way to do
> > it,
> > but then why not just say up 5 and pick out the strongest one there
> > each
> > time? This type of operation just uses up excess bandwidth for his
> > so
> > called "listening freqs" and no one else can use the freqs because
> > the
> > group moves in and out , causing QRM over the entire bandspread.
> > How do
> > you avoid these pile-ups? Quit using this silly method of
> > regularity. An
> > example: Say your listening up 5 to 15. Then do exactly that.
> > Call
> > someone up 8, then up 3, up 14, up 2. Keep the callers guessing,
> > and they
> > will finally spread out, up and down your listening freqs, and they
> > will be
> > much easier to pick out. After all, that IS the reason for split
> > operation, as far as the DX station is concerned. You will be able
> > to
> > select out even the weaker, and rarer stations as well, and have a
> > lot more
> > fun doing so. Its even fun to insure the callers ARE listening and
> > hearing
> > you: Simply tell them what freq you are going to listen to next.
> > Up 4,
> > Down 2 etc. There will be a few on each freq; Those who were
> > listening and
> > hearing you. The rest, well they are just yellers anyway. By the
> > way, DX
> > stations PLEASE give your call, EVERY QSO, its not only usually the
> > law,
> > but its the polite way to operate. Its always amusing, in a teeth
> > clinching kind of way, to hear someone make a QSO with a station,
> > and THEN
> > ask him for his call. If you dont know who you are talking to, why
> > did you
> > call?
> >
>
> A LOT of the dynamics of pileup handling and behavior depends
> on the size of the pileup and the capability of the DX operator.
> Higher rates are possible if there are a limited number of callers
> on the same frequency. When the number of callers is large,
> then it is necessary to spread the pileup out or limit the
> number of callers (numbers, last letter, geographically, etc).
> Jumping around for every QSO actually SLOWS the rate
> while the DX operator has to hunt around to pick up a call.
>
> LARGE pileups are a drag, no question. My pet peeve is the
> DX operator who says "QRZ UP" without giving a clue as to
> where he is listening (or a range), especially if skip is long and
> it is difficult to impossible to spot successful callers.
>
> One recent DXpedition operator was saying "listening for Generals,
> QRZ UP" without giving any clue as to where he was tuning. YUCK.
> After 20 minutes, I finally spotted a successful caller (NOT in the
> general class band segment) and worked him on the first call.
>
> I have vivid memories of missing a couple of VERY RARE ONES
> on 80M because the operator called CQ but gave NO indication
> of where he was listening. I heard the first CQ from a 3C0 on
> 80 CW, called him transceive, then called him up 2, to no avail.
> He simply went away. I also heard VU4GDG's first CQ on 80M,
> just after my sunrise. I called on frequency while a friend called up 2.
>
> My friend worked him and all H*** broke loose. I never could bust
> the pileup (of more favorably located callers). These are 2 of the
> 10 countries I still need on 80M. It's a VIVID memory !
>
> Tom N4KG
>
> p.s. Trucating line length BEFORE the margins (i.e. NOT
> using 'wordwrap') prevents the choppy appearance of quotes
> as seen above.
>
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