[Dx-qsl] 7O1YGF and 7O1A

[Doug Renwick]

Hans,

I am glad that this discussion has brought out people that
are directly involved in the 7O1YGF operation.  There has
been a lot of speculation, and hearing your side of the
story gives the issue balance.

I agree that the 7O1YGF operation was first sabotaged and
then abandoned by the ARRL/DXCC.

The 7O1YGF operation was certainly transparent and not a
clandestine operation.

You have my sympathy.  I know the work that must have gone
into an operation of this size...the planning, the cost, the
equipment and so on.  And then in the end for it to be a
waste of time.  You have my sympathy but not the sympathy of
the ARRL/DXCC.

No written documentation...true, but you were authorized to
operate.
The 7O1YGF operation was penalized by the ARRL/DXCC.  IMO
one of the biggest mistakes that the 7O1YGF team made was
not getting 'the blessing' of the ARRL/DXCC before arriving
in Yemen.  If you had done this, I believe the outcome may
have been different.
We may never hear the real reason for the ARRL/DXCC
declining the Yemen operation...it is so easy for them to
hide behind 'no written documentation'.  Someone will stand
up and say 'the rules state...' blah, blah, blah.  Some
rules need flexibility and this is one of them.

I would like to hear more from the 7O1YGF team, especially
about the sabotage of this operation...it would certainly be
interesting.

BTW to add balance to this discussion...I do actively
participate in the ARRL/DXCC program...honour roll, 9BDXCC.

Doug


Subject: Re: [Dx-qsl] 7O1YGF and 7O1A

Just to remind you all.
The following info I sent in 03/15/2002 in reply to a
message from 
Wayne, N7NG/1

I hope that answers all your questions!

Well guys,

I'll think its now the right time to give some information
from the
recent
7O1YGF
operation.

Wayne, N7NG/1 wrote: "In the second case (7O1YGF) no
documentation was
ever
submitted....."

Thats true!

We were not able to get a piece of paper stating about the
operation.
That was
NOT our fault.
During our operation the Ministry of PTT received faxes and
phone calls
from
amateurs around
the world, asking for the legetimacy of our operation.  One
of the fax
senders
was
DXCC Specialist Bill Moore, NC1L. This wasn't too helpfull.
Wayne
afterwards
apologised for that.
To get 7O1YGF credited for ARRL awards, Wayne want to have a
written
document
either faxed
or mailed from the Ministry of PTT in Sanaa DIRECTLY to ARRL
Headquarter, not to
us!
As I'm not a newbie in dxing, I never heard before from such
practice.

Our operation was legal, verbal licence (Callsign 7O1YGF)
was given to
us upon
arrival. They denied
the second call (7O1II) for which we applied. We brought our
equipment
with us,
total of 220 pounds,
including two 5 element logperiodics. The operation site was
in the
diplomatic
quarter in Sanaa, appr.
400 yards away from the HB9 and DL embassy. This area was
heavily
controlled by
Police and Army
day and night. Everybody could see our antennas, one was
mounted on a
55ft tower
and the other one
top on a three story building.
We where supervised by the Chief of the Secret Police twice.
He didn't
complain
anything.
What would be happened if our operation was not legal?
After 9 days and 35k qso's we were forced by the Police to
end our
operation,
what we did immediatly.
Nobody was arrested and all of our equipment was taken out
the country.
Thats the story.

AND our operation did not reflect badly on Amateur Radio but
those who
opposed.
We know the
callsigns and names.

So, its on you to discuss if verbal permission is ok for any
ARRL
sponsored
award or not.

Hans, DK9KX one of the 7O1YGF team
former calls: FR0ACC/G, DK9KX/S9, PY0ZSG, 5U7DX, 3D2CR,
ZS9AAA/1, J59KX,
N9KX/KH4
and some others







"Mills, Wayne N7NG" wrote::

 > Hi guys,
 >
 > Here is something to think about...
 >
 > As far as Hrane, YT1AD is concerned, North Korea
apparently gave him 
ample
 > reason why he shouldn't transmit(!) It might be
interesting to know 
why he
 > wasn't allowed to transmit, but he wasn't, and we missed
the 
opportunity. On
 > the other hand, Ed, P5/4L4FN appears to have at least the
tacit 
approval of
 > the DPRK, as he continues to operate. We don't know why,
and really 
we don't
 > have any right to know. I guess DPRK can do anything it
wants, and we 
will
 > respect their wishes.
 >
 > Someone wrote "...how is it decided who is the
"appropriate authority"?
 > Shouldn't we be
 > consistent?  If YT1AD was denied permission by the
"appropriate 
authority",
 > then how could that same "authority" grant permission to
someone else? At
 > least, it would seem reasonable to seek a suitable answer
to that 
question
 > from the prior operators who had permission from some
"appropriate
 > authority."
 >
 > Consistency is what we would expect based on most of our
experiences. 
It is
 > what happens in most places, but not all. On the other
hand, what 
right do
 > we have to expect that a particular government in the
World will be
 > consistent? The World doesn't always work that way.  We
will fare 
better if
 > we adapt to the conditions instead of demanding what we
expect. Taking
 > something off the list really isn't an option.
 >
 > Now this is a major point: ARRL does not want to
encourage any 
activity that
 > will reflect badly on Amateur Radio. If we were to issue
credit for an
 > operation against the wishes of the "appropriate
authority," Amateur 
Radio
 > could suffer. Therefore, we would like to see tangible
evidence that an
 > Amateur Radio operation is not illegal. Think about that
one for a while.
 > This usually means a paper "license," but not
necessarily. North Korea is
 > not the USA or France. As far as we know, Amateur Radio
in the DPRK 
is not
 > defined. To expect a license in writing like you get from
the FCC may be
 > unrealistic in some situations. In general, if someone in
a high enough
 > position says something is OK, and no one in a higher
position says 
that it
 > is not, it's probably OK. What happened in the first 7O
case (7O1A) 
was that
 > someone said it was OK, and then someone in a higher
position said it was
 > not OK. We are not in a position to argue.

 > (In the second case (7O1YGF) no
 > documentation was ever submitted,

 > so no should be waiting for us to make a
 > decision on accreditation.) Every case is different. Too
many rules about
 > these things don't help, and making comparisons to the
way things are 
done
 > in the US or Europe are meaningless.
 >
 > 73,  Wayne, N7NG/1
 >
 > -------------------------------------------------------
 > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems, etc
 > DX-NEWS  http://njdxa.org/dx-news

Fred Souto Maior schrieb:
> Congrats Doug. You really said how things are always
> hapenning. Specific rules for  particular guys and
> general rules to the others.
> And of course we have the option. Accept that fact
> and live with it or go away and do anything else !!
> That's the name of the game guys !!!
>
> Fred - PY7ZZ
>
> Doug Renwick escreveu:
>> My point is that the acceptance of an operation with the
>> ARRL/DXCC changes frequently.  Regardless of the DXCC
rules,
>> the acceptance/rejection of an operation is subjective
IMO
>> by the DXCC committee.  The ARRL could easily have made
an
>> exception for the Yemen operations as they have done in
the
>> past for other operations.
>> The rules are bent regularly.  Remember this is just a
>> hobby.
>> I have operated from countries where the use of a
callsign
>> had only verbal approval, no documentation.  Yet these
>> operations were accepted by the ARRL.  What makes the
Yemen
>> operations any different?
>> If you want to play the ARRL/DXCC game, you play by their
>> rules...and their interpretation/application of the rules
>> changes frequently...fact!  I understand that.  The
>> ARRL/DXCC rule application is not always transparent.
Big
>> Brother knows best.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: RE: [Dx-qsl] 7O1YGF and TT8ZB
>>
>> 7O1YGF never submitted anything to the ARRL DXCC Desk!
>>
>> 7O1A submitted paper work from Aden, not Sana (the
capital).
>>
>> The ARRL DXCC Desk doesn't have a beef with any
countries!
>>
>> The ARRL DXCC program is one of the most sought after
>> programs by DXers
>> around the world and holds the highest integrity!
>>
>> Bernie, W3UR
>>
>> Bernie McClenny, W3UR
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>
> "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what
you've 
> got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni
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