[Dx-qsl] AR - VE7CC
rayfri
rayfri at highstream.net
Sat Dec 31 12:51:21 EST 2005
Osten...
And, if you and others feel that way ... I have no heartburn about
it. As I said .. "to each his own as Mrs. Murphy said as she kissed
the cow goodnight" HI HI
If I have a DXCC issued by the Radio Club of Brazil (and there IS such
an animal by the way) ... will you denigrate or place less value on my
claim as a DXCCer than on your own claim by virtue of an ARRL DXCC? I
sincerely hope not .. and I dont think you would.
There ARE other DXCC certificates out there issued by other
organizations. They may not be as high profile as the ARRL one is ..
which is probably due more to PUBLICITY than anything else .. but you
can earn their DXCC by working the very same stations that you do to
earn the ARRL one... At the risk of sounding too cliched .... "A
rose is a rose is a rose. And a rose by any other name (or color)
smells the same"...
Happy New Year...
Ray WA7ITZ
Osten B Magnusson wrote:
>
> Hi friends
>
> and Happy New Year to all of you! Starting an alternative
> DXCC has been tried many times, and always a failure -
> among DX'ers, at least of my generation, born 1941 and
> licensed since 1962, there is and will always be only ONE
> real DXCC!
>
> 73/DX de Osten SM5DQC sm5dqc at areteadsl.se
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "rayfri" <rayfri at highstream.net>
> To: "John Becker" <johnb3030 at comcast.net>
> Cc: <dx-qsl at mailman.qth.net>; <frosty1 at pdq.net>
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dx-qsl] AR - VE7CC
>
>
>> well then maybe it is time that the amateur radio community left the
>> ARRL behind
>> it its own dustbin of history when it comes to this particular issue
>> .... and
>> some other organization or group of hams offer similar awards like
>> DXCC etc that
>> WILL accept uploaded and printed off qsl cards.
>>
>> After all ... ask yourself this question. What in the heck makes
>> an award
>> more coveted or valuable just because it has the "sacred" initials of
>> the ARRL
>> on it than if it has another organizations name on it? I, for one,
>> dont turn
>> eastward and bow and genuflect twice a day in homage to the ARRL. If
>> a club in
>> Chile or Canada or the U.S. or anywhere else in the world
>> acknowledges that I
>> have worked
>> all states, or worked 100 or more countries, is that acknowledgement
>> any LESS
>> because they applauded and acknowledged me?
>> Is my pride in making those contacts any less ... or do I hang my
>> head a little
>> bit ... because I received a "well done" from some other group than
>> the ARRL?
>> Maybe it is for YOU .. but it isnt for me. In fact, I often apply
>> for other
>> organization's awards because the acknowledgement for a LOT LESS than
>> what the
>> ARRL "charges" for that same acknowledgement. And I applaud those of
>> you who
>> accomplished a certain goal even if it isnt "officially applauded and
>> endorsed"
>> by being "bought" from the ARRL.
>> In reality, that is all we are doing ... we are PAYING the ARRL to
>> "recognize"
>> our accomplishment. So why not pay someone else
>> less and get the same acknowledgement? It means the same ... unless
>> you value
>> the "blessing" of the ARRL more than other ham groups. I guess it
>> may go back
>> to "you get what you pay for".... sometimes.
>>
>> Take a look at the old ARRL Rag Chewers Club award. They decided
>> that not
>> enough people were applying to warrant their time and effort to
>> acknowledge that
>> accomplishment. WHO CARES HOW MANY APPLIED? You have a stack of
>> blank awards
>> on the shelf and whether ONE person or ONE MILLION people applied ...
>> you fill
>> one out, slap a stamp on the envelope and mail it out.
>> But, because there werent enough applications to make it "financially
>> worthwhile" or "cost effective" they said forget it, they werent
>> going to
>> acknowledge an accomplishment they themselves had championed for
>> years. I got
>> one of those .. to me .. coveted awards as a Novice. It got lost in
>> a move and
>> I had hoped to get a replacement, but the ARRL had deep sixed the
>> program. SO,
>> instead I happily applied for a "replacement" with a new qso and
>> application to
>> SPAR which
>> started issuing their version in response to the ARRL abandonment of
>> hams in
>> this instance. It was supplied by downloading and
>> printing. All filled out and ready to frame.. It means as much
>> to me
>> "accomplishment wise" as if I had my old ARRL issued one.
>> I know I met the requirements .... and that's what matters. I have a
>> clear
>> conscience. If someone else lies to get one, then theirs is
>> worth what it is to them. Makes no never mind to me....
>>
>> If you tell someone you have a certain award, no one can really prove or
>> disprove whether you earned it legitimately or not...
>> You tell me you earned DXCC ... only you know if you did it
>> legitimately or
>> not. I'm not going to ask to see all 100 cards before I decide
>> whether I am
>> impressed or not HI HI. And, I'm not going to be any MORE
>> impressed if
>> yours was issued by the ARRL than if it was issued by the Radio Club
>> of Brazil,
>> or the Russian Amateur Radio Society or the Southern Tip of
>> Charleston South
>> Carolina Radio Group. To me, ARRL staff has not been "annointed"
>> with holy
>> water or anything more special than any other group.
>>
>> Personally, I also prefer the pasteboards. When I was a novice in
>> the 60s my
>> walls were covered with them from all over ...
>> contributed to the atmosphere of the shack HI HI. But, If I were
>> able to
>> download a qsl from a DX station, it would mean as much to me as a
>> mailed one,
>> because I would know that
>> I worked that station and it was a legitimate qsl card and
>> contact. As for
>> the increasing price of getting a mailed one ... I too have
>> experienced that, and so far I have just chalked it up to the price
>> of the
>> hobby. The cost of just about all hobbies has gone up over the
>> year....
>> whether it is photography, rock collecting, skiing, etc.... If we
>> enjoy a
>> hobby, we accept the cost to a certain point. I havent reached that
>> "point" yet
>> where I would quit collecting qsl cards just because of the cost of
>> postage...
>>
>> Back to the ARRL and its "security" concerns about uploaded and
>> downloaded cards
>> being used for their awards....
>> It comes down to a person's honesty.... TRUE, someone can phony up
>> a bunch of
>> cards if they wanted to bad enough in order to apply for and get DXCC
>> and WAS,
>> etc .... BUT, if a person did that, HE HIMSELF would know it wasnt a
>> legitimately earned award, and to that person it would be worth
>> whatever it was
>> worth.... Others may know or suspect that it wasnt worth more
>> than the paper
>> it was printed on... Other's who earned the awards
>> legitimately with real
>> contacts and cards would have the pride and knowledge that they
>> earned it
>> legitimately .. and those who knew them or even didnt know them,
>> would know or
>> suspect that the award was earned legitimately, and the appropriate
>> value would
>> be with that award.
>>
>> I find it interesting and somewhat paradoxical that the ARRL with all
>> of its
>> championing of "new technology" would refuse to recognize the facts
>> about awards
>> and qsl cards and hold firm to the good old fashioned post mark or
>> signature as
>> "proof" of the authenticity of a card. Many cards now days ....
>> especially
>> those from DX stations and their managers, dont even have either a
>> postmark or a
>> signature... they come in envelopes or through a bureau in an
>> envelope ..
>> and there is often nothing more than a stamp that says "verified by
>> X" ....
>> which even a high school kid could phony up.. So the ARRL needs to
>> practice what it preaches about moving into the new century when it
>> comes to
>> qsling and awards.... instead of having a double standard, which it
>> already has
>> on so many other issues.
>>
>> As I said earlier ... I know if I am being honest or not. And, IF I
>> should
>> ever want an award bad enough to phony up confirmations and fool an
>> awards
>> committee .. then the award is worth what it is worth to me. If my
>> award
>> doesnt impress anyone else, well "to each his own as Mrs Murphy said
>> as she
>> kissed the cow goodnight"....
>>
>> Ray WA7ITZ
>>
>> John Becker wrote:
>>
>>>> Ernie seems to forget that many of us are QSL card collectors more
>>>> than just awards chasers. We really do want to have and keep the
>>>> QSLs, a fine tradition of the Amateur Radio service. Therefore we
>>>> don't want to provide the people who we work an alternative way of
>>>> getting a confirmation from us.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Fred, K3ZO
>>>>
>>> I think that without a doubt, LOTW is the future of QSLing. And I say
>>> this as a DXer who still keeps only a paper log, and who has only
>>> manually uploaded a few dozen QSOs to LOTW just to see what credits
>>> might be available. But having said that, I also very much treasure
>>> having the physical QSL cards as a visible memento of memorable QSOs.
>>>
>>> The cost of obtaining the physical QSLs by mail certainly has risen in
>>> recent years, and no doubt will continue to do so. But there COULD
>>> be an
>>> alternative that would provide the best of both worlds. The eQSL system
>>> allows participants to upload custom-designed QSLs which the recipients
>>> can download and print. ARRL doesn't accept these for award credit
>>> because of lack of adequate security. But I know of no TECHNICAL reason
>>> why the security of LOTW and the printable QSLs of eQSL couldn't be
>>> merged to provide a secure, printable QSL over the Internet.
>>>
>>> I assume that the security of LOTW involves a unique encrypted ID for
>>> each QSO entered into the system. It should be possible to generate a
>>> unique bar code from these encrypted IDs which could be printed on each
>>> eQSL. While it would still be possible for someone to alter an eQSL to
>>> produce a bogus card that would LOOK good, it would be impossible for
>>> them to generate a valid bar code for a bogus QSO.
>>>
>>> For award credit, ARRL could either accept data directly from LOTW
>>> data,
>>> or scan the bar code from the eQSL at gatherings where
>>> field-checking of
>>> QSLs is presently done.
>>>
>>> I have suggested this idea to a couple of ARRL staffers over the last
>>> couple of years, but the responses I have received have been
>>> disappointing. They didn't seem to accept the idea that what I
>>> suggested
>>> would yield an eQSL that was as secure as LOTW. Possibly they didn't
>>> have the technical background to fully comprehend my suggestion, or
>>> possibly there is bad blood between the LOTW and eQSL developers.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, there is nothing proprietary about the eQSL system
>>> which would prevent ARRL from incorporating the functionality of an
>>> eQSL-like system into LOTW without the involvement of the current eQSL
>>> organization.
>>>
>>> 73 and HNY to all,
>>>
>>> John, K9MM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
>>> got...till
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>>
>> "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
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