From W7CQ at teleport.com  Thu Oct 13 21:02:29 2016
From: W7CQ at teleport.com (Jimmy Oldaker W7CQ)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 01:02:29 +0000
Subject: [DSP-10] Test by W7CQ
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20161014010115.043e2250@teleport.com>

Just checking out the system.

Jimmy W7CQ
Manager of the DSP-10 reflector


From k6pzb at sonic.net  Thu Oct 13 22:28:26 2016
From: k6pzb at sonic.net (K6pzb)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 19:28:26 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10] DSP 10 for sale
In-Reply-To: <CALbFW37fdk8AqmipCAJp1yyGYovnPtX43NxVaazAdakTFmX5yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALbFW37fdk8AqmipCAJp1yyGYovnPtX43NxVaazAdakTFmX5yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42225CF9-7FF7-46A9-BF4D-3989E030605F@sonic.net>

I have a complete DSP 10 that is free to a good home.
k6pzb

jwatrous at sonic.net

707 360 5496

K6PZB

> On Apr 24, 2016, at 22:35, Clayton Smith <bad.badger35 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi i was wondering if you still had the DSP 10 and kit for sale?
> Clay
> VE5CTM
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 

From tfbiii2002 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 22:45:13 2016
From: tfbiii2002 at gmail.com (Fred Buecker)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 02:45:13 +0000
Subject: [DSP-10] Test by W7CQ
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20161014010115.043e2250@teleport.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20161014010115.043e2250@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <CANu+-KV5hDhVqNDqycQTGtLwYVNqUJQ3_CjQatbnYY6JJ0rqPg@mail.gmail.com>

5x5

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016, 9:03 PM Jimmy Oldaker W7CQ <W7CQ at teleport.com> wrote:

> Just checking out the system.
>
> Jimmy W7CQ
> Manager of the DSP-10 reflector
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

From ponyoop41 at wildblue.net  Thu Oct 13 22:15:23 2016
From: ponyoop41 at wildblue.net (Bill Grogan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 22:15:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [DSP-10] dsp-10 project
In-Reply-To: <840272390.26054458.1476411316977.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <1516720435.26054510.1476411323289.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net>



does anyone out there have a complete kit for building thd DSP-10 project?


From w3sz73 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 23:10:17 2016
From: w3sz73 at gmail.com (Roger Rehr W3SZ)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 23:10:17 -0400
Subject: [DSP-10] dsp-10 project
In-Reply-To: <1516720435.26054510.1476411323289.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net>
References: <1516720435.26054510.1476411323289.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net>
Message-ID: <89c365b0-cde1-0e75-b2f1-2ad92e09cf38@w3sz.net>

Hi Bill,

I have a complete original unbuilt TAPR Kit as well as new, never used
EZ-Kit Lite.
If you are interested in purchasing, let me know and we can discuss
terms off-list.

73,
Roger Rehr
W3SZ

On 10/13/2016 10:15 PM, Bill Grogan wrote:
>
> does anyone out there have a complete kit for building thd DSP-10 project?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From tfbiii2002 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 23:16:40 2016
From: tfbiii2002 at gmail.com (Fred Buecker)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 03:16:40 +0000
Subject: [DSP-10] dsp-10 project
In-Reply-To: <89c365b0-cde1-0e75-b2f1-2ad92e09cf38@w3sz.net>
References: <1516720435.26054510.1476411323289.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net>
	<89c365b0-cde1-0e75-b2f1-2ad92e09cf38@w3sz.net>
Message-ID: <CANu+-KUWUrvQW9Mv7Y6nOeHucNqWSajRw8PrKQ+gVRks8Ew7LA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm interested in picking one up. I have a Linux system, running Suse, so I
should be able to get it up and working. (I hope!)

Is the EZ-Kit also unassembled?

Fred

KC3HMS

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016, 11:10 PM Roger Rehr W3SZ <w3sz73 at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bill,

I have a complete original unbuilt TAPR Kit as well as new, never used
EZ-Kit Lite.
If you are interested in purchasing, let me know and we can discuss
terms off-list.

73,
Roger Rehr
W3SZ

On 10/13/2016 10:15 PM, Bill Grogan wrote:
>
> does anyone out there have a complete kit for building thd DSP-10 project?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
DSP-10 mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

From ponyoop41 at wildblue.net  Fri Oct 14 12:49:57 2016
From: ponyoop41 at wildblue.net (Bill Grogan)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:49:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [DSP-10] Test by W7CQ
In-Reply-To: <CANu+-KV5hDhVqNDqycQTGtLwYVNqUJQ3_CjQatbnYY6JJ0rqPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20161014010115.043e2250@teleport.com>
	<CANu+-KV5hDhVqNDqycQTGtLwYVNqUJQ3_CjQatbnYY6JJ0rqPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1686079988.27044497.1476463797666.JavaMail.zimbra@wildblue.net>

working

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Buecker" <tfbiii2002 at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of DSP-10 2-meter transceiver" <dsp-10 at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 10:45:13 PM
Subject: Re: [DSP-10] Test by W7CQ

5x5

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016, 9:03 PM Jimmy Oldaker W7CQ <W7CQ at teleport.com> wrote:

> Just checking out the system.
>
> Jimmy W7CQ
> Manager of the DSP-10 reflector
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
______________________________________________________________
DSP-10 mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

From courtney.duncan.n5bf at gmail.com  Sat Oct 15 02:20:46 2016
From: courtney.duncan.n5bf at gmail.com (Courtney Duncan)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 23:20:46 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10] Sun Noise Measurement
Message-ID: <0002219B-AB7B-4E3A-8CCD-059A05AAF2DD@gmail.com>

The sun noise I measure on 1296 is lower than VK3UM predicts.  System improvements may be indicated, but I wonder if I?m measuring the sun noise reasonably accurately.

I use a DSP-10 for this which has a 4 KHz noise bandwidth at the 144 MHz IF.  In the lower right corner of the screen is the total noise in the noise bandwidth in dB over the last previous update interval.  I do a 60-second measurement on the sun and a 60-second measurement on ?cold sky.?  Subtracting ?sun minus cold? gives the sun Y-factor in dB.  in a df*dt sense, this should be roughly equivalent to listening to a quarter MHz for one second, and one minute is not enough to get into pointing problems with a 5 degree beam width so it seems like a reasonable approach.

Question is, is this a good enough way to do this measurement and am I thinking about it right?

When I use a similar DSP-10 technique with a calibrated noise source I get pretty close to the noise figure measurements I expect, for example.

A possible hint is that when I point at ?Cold Sky North (Leo)? I get a higher reading than I do if I point at some other random place in the sky up out of the trees.  If my ?cold sky? is too high as a result, for whatever reason, my sun Y factor will be too low.

I wonder if, overlooking the Los Angeles basin, I?m seeing some QRM?  I know we have radars sometimes and I see some increased noise floor and other crummy signals that seem to be associated with a hospital about a mile away.

73, Courtney, N5BF

From boblark at proaxis.com  Sat Oct 15 13:47:48 2016
From: boblark at proaxis.com (Bob Larkin)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 10:47:48 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10]  Sun Noise Measurement
Message-ID: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>

Hi Courtney,

Great to hear from you.  As for the measurements, what you are doing 
should be valid.  The number in the corner is the sum of the powers in 
the DFT bins, converted to dB after adding.

But, there is provision to do better.  In the FM mode (of all things) 
the s-meter reading is the average noise power in the 12 kHz bandwidth. 
In addition, the ALT-F3, ALT-F4 averaging also applies to this 
measurement, so you can adjust the averaging time from 0.6 sec on up. 
This is block averaging over the chosen time interval. Because of this 
"instrumentation" use, the s-meter changes to show the dBm power to 3 
decimal places.  This is generally excessive, but might be useful. See, 
also,
  http://www.proaxis.com/%7Ekd7ts/v396/1CH1.HTM#sun_noise

The ALT-F data record in FM is different, and has several data items 
useful for this kind of measurement.  I can't find where we wrote that 
data format down.  Am I missing it?

Finally, I did a paper at the 2003 Microwave Update on Sun-Quiet 
Sky-Earth  noise measurements that has some comments on noise pickup.  I 
will see if I can get permission to post it.  It tries to summarize the 
general art of such measurements, and also adds info on using the three 
measurements to estimate both receiver noise figure and antenna gain.  I 
think some of that relates to what you are doing.

73, Bob   W7PUA



From kd7ts at comcast.net  Sat Oct 15 15:46:10 2016
From: kd7ts at comcast.net (Mike)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 12:46:10 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10] Sun Noise Measurement
In-Reply-To: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
References: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
Message-ID: <20161015124610.a06df2e158dab32b25712961@comcast.net>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 10:47:48 -0700
Bob Larkin <boblark at proaxis.com> wrote:

> I can't find where we wrote that 
> data format down.  Am I missing it?

There is this page:

http://www.proaxis.com/~kd7ts/v396/fileform1.htm

but I don't think the format is described here.
-- 
Mike <kd7ts at comcast.net>
An optimist believes we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  A pessimist fears this is true.

From kd7ts at comcast.net  Sat Oct 15 15:49:56 2016
From: kd7ts at comcast.net (Mike)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 12:49:56 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10] Sun Noise Measurement
In-Reply-To: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
References: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
Message-ID: <20161015124956.8779d15e5d20e6b12e37c07f@comcast.net>

On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 10:47:48 -0700
Bob Larkin <boblark at proaxis.com> wrote:

> In addition, the ALT-F3, ALT-F4 averaging also applies to this 
> measurement, so you can adjust the averaging time from 0.6 sec on up.


Hi Bob,

Maybe this relates ?

Data Record - The logged power data after non-coherent integration can be saved directly to disk. This is toggled on and off by the Alt F command. It is saved to a file called UHFA1.DAT and if the file exists, it is appended to the end of the existing data. The data is time and date stamped for future use. It is not compacted, though and can produce some big files. To reduce the file size increase the non-coherent integration (Alt F4). The beginnings of a companion program EDFILE01.C and EDFILE01.EXE is available. It reads the data file and replays the data allowing additional smoothing as well as Doppler slope correction and various other feaures. EDFILE is not documented except through the C listing, but the program listing comments do much to describe the operation.
-- 
Mike <kd7ts at comcast.net>
An optimist believes we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  A pessimist fears this is true.

From boblark at proaxis.com  Sat Oct 15 18:25:29 2016
From: boblark at proaxis.com (Bob Larkin)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 15:25:29 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10] Sun Noise Measurement
In-Reply-To: <20161015124956.8779d15e5d20e6b12e37c07f@comcast.net>
References: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
	<20161015124956.8779d15e5d20e6b12e37c07f@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f696ba05-7d71-22a3-384c-3fa65898e938@proaxis.com>

Thanks Mike.  Those are not the ones, so here goes.  I don't think this 
got written down :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

In the FM mode, the data-dump file written by the ALT-F command (a 
toggle) is named UHFA_1.DAT.  This file is appended to when used, and 
never cleared.  So, you get to manage the data on the file, including 
deleting it to keep the size more manageable.  HFM records are appended 
to the same file as other ALT-F data saves.

A record is written every time the the spectral averaging (ALT-F3, 
ALT-F4) time is up, which is every 0.6 seconds or more.  The 19 fields 
of the record are comma separated and as follows:

HFM           Identifies record type, differentiates
                  from HL records
year          as 2016
month         1 to 12
day           1 to 31
hour minute   0 to 2359, UTC Time
second        0 to 59 Seconds
fft_bw        DFT noise bandwidth always 2
rf gain       0 to 6, 0=full gain or 100
noncohave     Number of DFT in ave*
do_window     window type, 0 to 3
2ndLO         Not Used
mode          Not Used
0             Not used
0             Not used
0             Not used
16            Not used
fm_log_power  S-meter power, dBm
deltaf        Discriminator output, Hz**, every 0.6 seconds or more. 
The 19 fields of the record are comma sep
fmf           Received freq, Hz

* The DFT overlap 50% to minimize windowing losses.  Thus, the number of 
DFT being averaged is twice the number that time would allow.

** The discriminator output will not usually be zero with no signal 
present.  This is due to asymmetries in the crystal filter passband. 
However, as the S/N increases, the correct deviation from tuned 
frequency will be shown.

Note that the Sigma-Delta ADC is inherently extremely linear, and the 
power measurements can be used over a wide dynamic range.  Likewise, the 
phase measurements used in the "FM discriminator" are accurate to better 
than a Hz across the +/- 6 KHz, assuming adequate S/N.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

73, Bob

On 10/15/2016 12:49 PM, Mike wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 10:47:48 -0700
> Bob Larkin <boblark at proaxis.com> wrote:
>
>> In addition, the ALT-F3, ALT-F4 averaging also applies to this
>> measurement, so you can adjust the averaging time from 0.6 sec on up.
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Maybe this relates ?
>
> Data Record - The logged power data after non-coherent integration can be saved directly to disk. This is toggled on and off by the Alt F command. It is saved to a file called UHFA1.DAT and if the file exists, it is appended to the end of the existing data. The data is time and date stamped for future use. It is not compacted, though and can produce some big files. To reduce the file size increase the non-coherent integration (Alt F4). The beginnings of a companion program EDFILE01.C and EDFILE01.EXE is available. It reads the data file and replays the data allowing additional smoothing as well as Doppler slope correction and various other feaures. EDFILE is not documented except through the C listing, but the program listing comments do much to describe the operation.
>

From W7CQ at teleport.com  Tue Oct 18 19:06:43 2016
From: W7CQ at teleport.com (Jimmy Oldaker W7CQ)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 23:06:43 +0000
Subject: [DSP-10] Manager Testing
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20161018230131.042fb3d8@teleport.com>

Hi all.  MORE TESTING!

Doing some updating of the web information for the reflector.

Trying to clean up the mailing list.

If you are receiving DSP-10 info and no longer desire it please drop 
me a line.

w7cq  at   teleport.com


Jimmy W7CQ
reflector manager for DSP-10






From steveb_75 at ameritech.net  Tue Oct 18 19:36:51 2016
From: steveb_75 at ameritech.net (Steve Bunch)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 19:36:51 -0400
Subject: [DSP-10] Manager Testing
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20161018230131.042fb3d8@teleport.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20161018230131.042fb3d8@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <033F01EE-4B91-4CF5-917F-80132AA3B4DB@ameritech.net>

Hi, Jimmy,

Thanks for maintaining the list!

I sold off my DSP-10 a few years ago, so might as well save you the trouble of keeping me on the list.

73,
Steve K9SRB

> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:06 PM, Jimmy Oldaker W7CQ <W7CQ at teleport.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all.  MORE TESTING!
> 
> Doing some updating of the web information for the reflector.
> 
> Trying to clean up the mailing list.
> 
> If you are receiving DSP-10 info and no longer desire it please drop me a line.
> 
> w7cq  at   teleport.com
> 
> 
> Jimmy W7CQ
> reflector manager for DSP-10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From jloldaker at teleport.com  Tue Oct 18 21:38:11 2016
From: jloldaker at teleport.com (Jimmy Oldaker)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2016 01:38:11 +0000
Subject: [DSP-10] Manager Testing
In-Reply-To: <033F01EE-4B91-4CF5-917F-80132AA3B4DB@ameritech.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20161018230131.042fb3d8@teleport.com>
	<033F01EE-4B91-4CF5-917F-80132AA3B4DB@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20161019013738.0239d8a8@teleport.com>

Steve you are removed.

Good luck
Jimmy W7CQ


At 11:36 PM 10/18/2016, you wrote:
>Hi, Jimmy,
>
>Thanks for maintaining the list!
>
>I sold off my DSP-10 a few years ago, so might as well save you the 
>trouble of keeping me on the list.
>
>73,
>Steve K9SRB
>
> > On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:06 PM, Jimmy Oldaker W7CQ <W7CQ at teleport.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all.  MORE TESTING!
> >
> > Doing some updating of the web information for the reflector.
> >
> > Trying to clean up the mailing list.
> >
> > If you are receiving DSP-10 info and no longer desire it please 
> drop me a line.
> >
> > w7cq  at   teleport.com
> >
> >
> > Jimmy W7CQ
> > reflector manager for DSP-10
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > DSP-10 mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
>DSP-10 mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From courtney.duncan.n5bf at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 23:58:43 2016
From: courtney.duncan.n5bf at gmail.com (Courtney Duncan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2016 20:58:43 -0700
Subject: [DSP-10] Sun Noise Measurement
In-Reply-To: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
References: <6db7eba4-853d-6646-1397-21495278cc7b@proaxis.com>
Message-ID: <6CE02719-4EB1-418A-A258-CB5BEB5DCD29@gmail.com>

Hi Bob and Mike,

Yes, I plan to use this method next try.  Also, several have suggested that I should get the coldest visible place on the sky to work from, something which I hadn?t been careful enough about before.

I used the Alt-F data in my 10,000 second EME2 analysis for my 2006 AMSAT Symposium paper so I?m pretty familiar with the EME2 version anyway.  I may have reverse engineered it at the time.

I?ll look around and see if I can find that MUD paper.

Thanks for the help,

73, Courtney, N5BF



> On Oct 15, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Bob Larkin <boblark at proaxis.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Courtney,
> 
> Great to hear from you.  As for the measurements, what you are doing should be valid.  The number in the corner is the sum of the powers in the DFT bins, converted to dB after adding.
> 
> But, there is provision to do better.  In the FM mode (of all things) the s-meter reading is the average noise power in the 12 kHz bandwidth. In addition, the ALT-F3, ALT-F4 averaging also applies to this measurement, so you can adjust the averaging time from 0.6 sec on up. This is block averaging over the chosen time interval. Because of this "instrumentation" use, the s-meter changes to show the dBm power to 3 decimal places.  This is generally excessive, but might be useful. See, also,
> http://www.proaxis.com/%7Ekd7ts/v396/1CH1.HTM#sun_noise
> 
> The ALT-F data record in FM is different, and has several data items useful for this kind of measurement.  I can't find where we wrote that data format down.  Am I missing it?
> 
> Finally, I did a paper at the 2003 Microwave Update on Sun-Quiet Sky-Earth  noise measurements that has some comments on noise pickup.  I will see if I can get permission to post it.  It tries to summarize the general art of such measurements, and also adds info on using the three measurements to estimate both receiver noise figure and antenna gain.  I think some of that relates to what you are doing.
> 
> 73, Bob   W7PUA
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> DSP-10 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/dsp-10
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:DSP-10 at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html