[CW] Obsolete Prosigns

Sun Jul 12 21:54:31 EDT 2020

Thanks, DR. I hadn't found reference to that old meaning of VE, similar 
to CQ, in commercial use in the teens.  I guess that's where the Royal 
Navy adopted it from, by 1937.

Amazing recordings.  Thanks!

           Cheers,
                 Darrel, aa7fv.

On 7/12/2020 5:52 PM, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> Darrel,
>
> That's the old meaning of VE, similar to "CQ" which was in use 
> commercially from the 19-teens.
>
> The other "odd bird" of a signal is QRRR, even though CQD and SOE were 
> in use prior to before the adoption of SOS in 1906, and Titanic's 
> sinking where the R/O's used both CQD and SOS, there was use of QRRR 
> for Distress.  I believe it might have been Navy use, just like DE for 
> YOURCALLSIGN DE MYCALLSIGN usage was pretty standard from early in the 
> 20th century, the US Navy used V for that use NSS V NEPL
>
> Later they changed to DE I think after WWII.
>
> Interesting stuff, especially when you find something that is 
> historically interesting like this recording of Gramophone HMV B-629 
> of 1916 during the Great War (thanks to Norman Field) - notice the use 
> of period (III) in the recording.
>
> Norman Field's remarkable page of old Morse recordings:
> http://normanfield.com/index.php/morse/
>
> The recording itself:
> http://normanfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/hmvb629a-1.mp3
>
> My transcription of the Morse.
> = ARRIVERAI GARE NORD MINUIT = GEORGES +
> [Note + (AR) is used in 1916 just as it always in commercial usage, as 
> "end of message."]
>
> (KA) RADIO R (VE)
> [Note here the operator starts the next message with the starting 
> signal (KA) and then uses (VE) as an error sign.]
>
> (KA) RADIO PANIS 1 1555 5.20S =
>
> I would guess that RADIO PANIS was the originating radiotelegraph 
> station, 1 was the numerical number of the radiogram, 1555 was the 
> time of filing of the radiogram, 5.20S for all I can figure out is 5th 
> month, and 20 day, and perhaps S time zone.  But that's the time zone 
> for USA Central Standard time.
>
> Also I discovered a 1910 tinfoil cylinder "air check" of spark 
> transmission on this page. http://www.tinfoil.com/cm-0406.htm
>
> The operator of tinfoil.com <http://tinfoil.com> contacted me and 
> asked for help with this recording, and members of this list and the 
> radio-officers at googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:radio-officers at googlegroups.com> list helped him - with the 
> transcription below.
>
> http://www.tinfoil.com/cm/200406/morse-code~.ram
>
> The consensus to date is that this is not "modern" International Morse 
> Code (used primarily after 1920), but the original "American" or 
> "Railroad" Morse Code.
>
> Here is the best translation to date – Many thanks to all who have 
> contributed.   The bulk was provided by Lake "Ed" Trump "AL7N", Les 
> Kerr "N7RZ", and Lavina Shaw, with portions provided and confirmed by 
> several others:
>
> . JOE JEFFRIES OWES JACK JOHNSON A GOOD DEAL OF MONEY. THAT IS HE HAS 
> MADE A FORTUNE THROUGH HIS RELATIONS WITH THE COLORED CHAMPION. IN 
> FACT THE CALIFORNIAN HAS CLEANED UP $62218.28 SINCE NOV 17 ALL BECAUSE 
> THE NEGRO FIGHTER INSISTED THAT THE RETIRED CHAMPION AGREE TO MEET HIM 
> IN A FISTIC CONTEST. 1 235 46789 342156.
>
> 73
> DR
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 7:43 PM Darrel <demerson2718 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:demerson2718 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > One more trivial and obsolete reference to "VE"
> >
> > I found in a 1954 version of "Scouting for Boys" by Baden Powell, in 
> Chapter 7:
> >
> > "SIGNAL MEANING AND USE
> >
> > VE, VE, VE, or AAAA Calling up signal.
> > K Carry on (answer to VE if ready to receive message).
> > Q Wait (answer to VE if not ready to receive message)."
> >
> >
> >     So, there's quite a history of "VE" being used with this 
> meaning,  albeit in defiance of commercial and international 
> agreements and usage.
> >
> >        Cheers,
> >             Darrel, aa7fv & g3sys.
> >
> > On 07/12/2020 6:48 PM Darrel <demerson2718 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:demerson2718 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I already posted this to the [SKCC] group, so apologies for posting 
> here too.  I thought it might be of particular interest to this group.
> >
> > I've seen queries about the prosign "VE"  (or equally "SN") come up 
> from time to time.  Now, ""VE" means in all contexts "Understood", but 
> it wasn't always that way everywhere.  Very occasionally, an old timer 
> can be heard lapsing into this earlier usage.
> >
> >
> > See "Obsolete Morse Code Prosigns" on 
> https://wiki2.org/en/Prosigns_for_Morse_code#cite_note-:4-25 There's a 
> reference to "1937 Royal Navy Signal Card". "VE General call . . . _ . 
> Code re-used for "Message verified" or "Message understood" (see SN 
> above). " If you follow the links to that references given on that 
> Wiki page, there's a photo of the 1937 Royal Canadian Signal Card with 
> VE defined as above, and also to the Royal Navy Signal Card, with a 
> similar definition of VE as a "General Call". When I grew up using 
> Morse, in the early 1960s, I suspect there were many ex-Royal Navy 
> (and ex British Army) operators on the ham bands, who used the 
> prosigns they had been taught. Hence, I grew up with "VE" meaning 
> "General Call". I don't think either the Royal Navy or the Royal 
> Canadian Navy felt particularly bound at the time by any commercial 
> handbook or agreed international definition. I also found a reference 
> to "VE" meaning "General Call" in an old Boy Scouts manual. I'm 
> guessing that may date from Baden Powell and the Boer War. As this 
> Wiki page says, these are "Obsolete Morse Code Prosigns", even though 
> they were in common usage on one side of the Atlantic at one time. I 
> do try to resist using them now, although not always successfully. 
> Just for possible historical interest. Cheers, Darrel, aa7fv & g3sys.
> >
> >
> >
> > From https://wiki2.org/en/Prosigns_for_Morse_code
> >
> >
> > From 
> https://hatchfive.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/e676af9a-0708-4c10-bbe1-fce8667ea652.jpg
> > The 1937 Royal Navy Signal Card
> >
> >
> >
> > From the 1937 Royal Canadian Navy Signal Card
> > http://www.forposterityssake.ca/RCN-DOCS/SIGNAL_CARD_1937.htm
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
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