[CW] 5letter code groups

Danny Douglas n7dc at comcast.net
Mon Dec 1 23:19:12 EST 2008 

Sitting here listening, and copying if for awhile.  Brings back memories of
the 50s-60s-70s.  This was typical machine sent code of the day, and indeed
was used as late as the mid 80s, within several governments
telecommunications.  Ive sent out thousands of such groups.  Its probably
one-time-pad traffic ( the method by which a plain text message is bounced
off a pad of 5 letter groups, to get a third set of groups, which can be
sent on the air, and no one but the sender and the receiver can ever break
it back to readable text, because only they have the code books.

Almost all government communications were sent this way, at one time.  Even
commercial firms, who didnt want their communications to be read, used
similar procedures.  Some governments/groups used 4 letter groups, or even 2
letter groups, but 5 was most typical.  Other times, the groups were mixed
letter/numbers, or simply numbers alone.

It could also simply be code practice.  Any computer can be quickly
programmed to produce letter or number groups, and then send it out by
keying a transmitter.  Some of the earlier code machines did the transfers
authomatically, then cut the messages out into 5 or 6 letters/numbers per
group, which were then passed over to a CW operator who manually transmitted
them.  Been there - done that.
Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
those who do.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DB Vaughan" <ab4kx73 at yahoo.com>
To: <cw at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:45 PM
Subject: [CW] Re: CW Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3


2008/12/02/0342Z Signal is S5 to S6 in Nashville area on low 240 ft loop.
The SSB is loud but unintelligible.  The fist sound like an experienced CW
op using a keyer, sending speed consistent with non-pro USA ops....
-de AB4kx


--- On Mon, 12/1/08, cw-request at mailman.qth.net <cw-request at mailman.qth.net>
wrote:

> From: cw-request at mailman.qth.net <cw-request at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: CW Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3
> To: cw at mailman.qth.net
> Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 9:39 PM
> Send CW mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: 3600 and above is still a CW band too, isn't
> it?
>       (Danny Douglas)
>    2. QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (David Ring)
>    3. Re: QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (Danny Douglas)
>    4. Re: QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (Jim Vaughan)
>    5. Re: QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (K0HB)
>    6. Re: QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (Dave
> Lichtenwalner)
>    7. Re: QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (Danny Douglas)
>    8. Re: QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz (Martin
> Arsenault)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:19:00 -0500
> From: "Danny Douglas" <n7dc at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CW] 3600 and above is still a CW band too,
> isn't it?
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <086801c9541b$f5380830$6601a8c0 at ham2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> If your are a DXer, the problem is the DX usually isnt
> there.  They are down around the first 25 kc of all the
> bands, and thats why Extras got that portion of the band, as
> an award for working and earning the license - well at least
> many did.
>
> Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> those who do.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Ron.K3PID
>   To: cw at mailman.qth.net
>   Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:44 PM
>   Subject: Re: [CW] 3600 and above is still a CW band too,
> isn't it?
>
>
>   The "fine print" on the ARRL US Amateur Radio
> Bands chart says:
>
>   Note:
>   CW operation is permitted throughout all amateur bands
> except 60 meters.
>
>   So what's keeping us down? As long as we are
> courteous and behave ( you know, check before tuning up,
> send QRL, LISTEN FIRST...etc ) there shouldn't be any
> issues!!!
>
>   Ron H
>   -- 
>   This outgoing email was scanned by
>   Norton Antivirus Corp. Edition
>   and found to be virus free!
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:17:25 -0500
> From: "David Ring" <n1ea at arrl.net>
> Subject: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <b7e6a3ef0812011817u3d00a730yac67502e78ff0f18 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> At this time there is an unknown station sending 5 letter
> cipher
> groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations - particularly those
> in
> VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested to listen
> in on it
> and submit a S meter report.  If you don't have a full
> size antenna
> for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level will be much
> less than
> those with a full size antenna.
>
> Our possible guess is that the station is in Upstate NY -
> but that is
> a complete guess until we can get some reports.  If the
> fellow is
> S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
>
> Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to submit an
> azimuth bearing.
>
> Messages please to the reflector.
>
> If anyone knows the idenity of the station, please send
> this right away.
>
> 73
>
> DR
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:50:17 -0500
> From: "Danny Douglas" <n7dc at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <0ae501c95428$b5a03410$6601a8c0 at ham2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There is a SSB QSO, very strong, right on top of the CW
> signal here.  My
> East/West dipole appears to be slightly better than either
> the North/South
> direction, or on the inverted L.  On all of them, the
> signal is so mixed
> with the SSB I simply cannot copy it, even with my 250 hz
> filter, and dsp
> kicked all the way in to 50 cycles. Further, there is a
> buzz saw signal
> right on top of the freq.   Ive never suffered that much
> QRM on a SSB
> signal, so they must be awful close.   Havent heard a
> callsign yet.
>
> Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> those who do.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Ring" <n1ea at arrl.net>
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:17 PM
> Subject: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
>
>
> > At this time there is an unknown station sending 5
> letter cipher
> > groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations - particularly
> those in
> > VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested to
> listen in on it
> > and submit a S meter report.  If you don't have a
> full size antenna
> > for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level will be
> much less than
> > those with a full size antenna.
> >
> > Our possible guess is that the station is in Upstate
> NY - but that is
> > a complete guess until we can get some reports.  If
> the fellow is
> > S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
> >
> > Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to
> submit an azimuth
> bearing.
> >
> > Messages please to the reflector.
> >
> > If anyone knows the idenity of the station, please
> send this right away.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > DR
> > _______________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release
> Date: 12/1/2008
> 8:23 AM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 21:53:11 -0500
> From: "Jim Vaughan" <k4txj at arrl.net>
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <000f01c95429$1ee24f30$0202a8c0 at jim6c131a29158>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I'm listening to this station and he is 599 with ssb on
> top of him.
> I'm in Louisville, Ky. with an inverted vee up 80 ft
> broadside e/w
>
> I have never heard this station before.
>
> My rig is a Kenwood TS-570SG
>
> Good Luck.
>
> 73,
> Jim, K4TXJ
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__________________
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Ring" <n1ea at arrl.net>
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:17 PM
> Subject: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
>
>
> > At this time there is an unknown station sending 5
> letter cipher
> > groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations - particularly
> those in
> > VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested to
> listen in on it
> > and submit a S meter report.  If you don't have a
> full size antenna
> > for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level will be
> much less than
> > those with a full size antenna.
> >
> > Our possible guess is that the station is in Upstate
> NY - but that is
> > a complete guess until we can get some reports.  If
> the fellow is
> > S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
> >
> > Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to
> submit an azimuth
> > bearing.
> >
> > Messages please to the reflector.
> >
> > If anyone knows the idenity of the station, please
> send this right away.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > DR
> > _______________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release
> Date: 12/1/2008
> 8:23 AM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 02:58:57 -0000
> From: "K0HB" <kzerohb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <047AB70318F54A7288DE3804AFAC1807 at BigGuyII>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> The CW signal is S2 here in Minnesota (on three different
> full size
> antennas).
>
> Pretty much covered up by some southern pig farmers on SSB
> who don't
> identify.  (Would it be legal to take up a collection and
> hire Riley back
> out of retirement?)
>
> 73, de Hans, K0HB
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "David Ring" <n1ea at arrl.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:17 AM
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
>
> > At this time there is an unknown station sending 5
> letter cipher
> > groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations - particularly
> those in
> > VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested to
> listen in on it
> > and submit a S meter report.  If you don't have a
> full size antenna
> > for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level will be
> much less than
> > those with a full size antenna.
> >
> > Our possible guess is that the station is in Upstate
> NY - but that is
> > a complete guess until we can get some reports.  If
> the fellow is
> > S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
> >
> > Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to
> submit an azimuth
> > bearing.
> >
> > Messages please to the reflector.
> >
> > If anyone knows the idenity of the station, please
> send this right away.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > DR
> > _______________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:00:38 -0500
> From: "Dave Lichtenwalner"
> <ka3eaj at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <BEC5FCEBA50242FA9E0676EEB564E0F1 at acer262dc2ebf3>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed;
> charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> S9 to S9+10. EPA - grid FN20fm - Lehigh County, PA - 10 mi
> SW of Allentown -
> full size inverted V 45' center N/NW to S/SE
> orientation
>
> Dave KA3EAJ
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Ring" <n1ea at arrl.net>
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:17 PM
> Subject: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
>
>
> > At this time there is an unknown station sending 5
> letter cipher
> > groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations - particularly
> those in
> > VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested to
> listen in on it
> > and submit a S meter report.  If you don't have a
> full size antenna
> > for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level will be
> much less than
> > those with a full size antenna.
> >
> > Our possible guess is that the station is in Upstate
> NY - but that is
> > a complete guess until we can get some reports.  If
> the fellow is
> > S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
> >
> > Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to
> submit an azimuth
> > bearing.
> >
> > Messages please to the reflector.
> >
> > If anyone knows the idenity of the station, please
> send this right away.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > DR
> > _______________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 22:02:19 -0500
> From: "Danny Douglas" <n7dc at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: "K0HB" <K0HB at ARRL.ORG>, "CW
> Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <0b8601c9542a$640e2ce0$6601a8c0 at ham2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> They identified W0QU (with a doctorate) and NU4H.  Those
> good ole boy
> accents will fool ya.   Listening SSB I can copy the code
> fine, so its ACW
> and not pure CW.
>
> Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> those who do.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "K0HB" <kzerohb at gmail.com>
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
>
>
> > The CW signal is S2 here in Minnesota (on three
> different full size
> > antennas).
> >
> > Pretty much covered up by some southern pig farmers on
> SSB who don't
> > identify.  (Would it be legal to take up a collection
> and hire Riley back
> > out of retirement?)
> >
> > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "David Ring" <n1ea at arrl.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 2:17 AM
> > To: "CW Reflector"
> <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> >
> > > At this time there is an unknown station sending
> 5 letter cipher
> > > groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations -
> particularly those in
> > > VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested
> to listen in on it
> > > and submit a S meter report.  If you don't
> have a full size antenna
> > > for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level
> will be much less than
> > > those with a full size antenna.
> > >
> > > Our possible guess is that the station is in
> Upstate NY - but that is
> > > a complete guess until we can get some reports.
> If the fellow is
> > > S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
> > >
> > > Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to
> submit an azimuth
> > > bearing.
> > >
> > > Messages please to the reflector.
> > >
> > > If anyone knows the idenity of the station,
> please send this right away.
> > >
> > > 73
> > >
> > > DR
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CW mailing list
> > > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 - Release
> Date: 12/1/2008
> 8:23 AM
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:31:07 -0500
> From: Martin Arsenault <ve2bqa at radioamateur.ca>
> Subject: Re: [CW] QTC - Unknown Station 3647.5 kHz
> To: CW Reflector <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <4934ABFB.2020401 at radioamateur.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello
>
> The signal here is about S7 with peak to S9. I've got a
> TS-450 and a
> full wave Skywire loop at 25ft from ground.
>
> Good luck
>
> Martin VE2BQA
> from FN58RK
> Rimouski, Quebec, Canada
>
>
> David Ring a écrit :
> > At this time there is an unknown station sending 5
> letter cipher
> > groups on  3647.5 kHz.  All stations - particularly
> those in
> > VE1/VE2/VE3/FP/W1/W2/W3/W9/W9 land are requested to
> listen in on it
> > and submit a S meter report.  If you don't have a
> full size antenna
> > for 3.6 MHz - say so because your signal level will be
> much less than
> > those with a full size antenna.
> >
> > Our possible guess is that the station is in Upstate
> NY - but that is
> > a complete guess until we can get some reports.  If
> the fellow is
> > S9+60dB - he is in your backyard!
> >
> > Anyone with a loop or DF equipment is welcome to
> submit an azimuth bearing.
> >
> > Messages please to the reflector.
> >
> > If anyone knows the idenity of the station, please
> send this right away.
> >
> > 73
> >
> > DR
> > _______________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > CW at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> CW mailing list
> CW at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
>
>
> End of CW Digest, Vol 56, Issue 3
> *********************************
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