[Collins] Collins Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8
james aschenbach
janera at msn.com
Mon Jul 7 01:00:30 EDT 2014
> From: collins-request at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Collins Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8
> To: collins at mailman.qth.net
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 21:45:54 -0400
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: KWS-1 (David Thompson)
> 2. Re: KWS-1 (Glen Zook)
> 3. Re: Art Collins and Collins Radio (Dr. Gerald N. Johnson)
> 4. Re: 30L-1 Repair (Dr. Gerald N. Johnson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 15:52:56 -0400
> From: "David Thompson" <thompson at mindspring.com>
> To: <collins at mailman.qth.net>,
> <COLLINS-COLLECTORS-REFLECTOR at yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Collins] KWS-1
> Message-ID: <004501cf9953$eb9e7740$d55d4d0c at yourxb2x7j77gn>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Mac W2NSA (Long SK) had the KWS-1 and 75A4 in 1959 when I visited ny Grand
> parents in New Jersey. His KWS-1 had the 32W exciter that came with his rig
> that he bought from Bil Harrison W2AVA. Soon after my visit Art Collins
> called Mac directly as a long time Collins user and offered him the newer
> KWS-1. The deal was handled through Bil Harrison.
>
> By 1961 Mac also had the Collins S line including the 30S1.
>
> Another ham I worked often on 20 was Walter W3RIS. Walter was a Senior VP
> of Westinghouse
> and the first Picture he sent me in late 1959 showed his station included a
> 75A4 and KW-1. In the picture with Walter was Fred KH6OR and Bill W7PHO.
> In 1961 or 2 Walter sent me another picture with his newer Collins gear
> including the S line and 30S1. Listening to Fred and Bill showed they both
> ran Collins gear.
>
> AS I recall the original KWS-1 and 32W were offered as kits. Wonder if any
> were sold by Collins.
>
> 73 Dave K4JRB
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 14:30:28 -0700
> From: Glen Zook <k9sth at sbcglobal.net>
> To: David Thompson <thompson at mindspring.com>,
> "collins at mailman.qth.net" <collins at mailman.qth.net>,
> "COLLINS-COLLECTORS-REFLECTOR at yahoogroups.com"
> <COLLINS-COLLECTORS-REFLECTOR at yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Collins] KWS-1
> Message-ID:
> <1404682228.82831.YahooMailNeo at web181305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> As far as I can determine, there were never any advertisements for the KWS-1 or 32W-1 as kits. ?Collins was not in the business of selling kits. ?Art Collins was not going to put the Collins name on something over which he didn't have absolute control in the assembly.
>
> However, several Collins employees were able to obtain, at the Collins Cedar Rapids surplus store, enough parts and assemblies to build a 75A-4 and, probably, a few persons obtained enough parts to build a KWS-1 or 32W-1.
>
> Since the amateur radio equipment was built in the Cedar Rapids area (there were some 75A-4 receivers made at the Collins facilities in Toronto and some KWM-2- series made in Japan under license) I never saw any assemblies for the amateur radio line at the Collins surplus store next to Building 427 which was located about 2-miles south of the Richardson city limits actually within the City of Dallas.
>
> Art had some quirky ideas with the amateur radio equipment. ?He declared that no 75S-1 or 75S-2 receivers were to be shipped with the optional 500 Hz mechanical filter and the optional BFO crystal installed. ?Instead, one had to purchase the receiver from a dealer and then return the receiver to the factory or approved service facility to have the items installed. ?Or, the filter and crystal could be purchased and installed by the owner of the receiver.
>
> I actually have what is probably the only 75S-1 that was shipped, from the factory, with the filter and crystal already installed. ?However, that receiver cost a Collins employee his job! ?The employee purchased the 75S-1 through the employee purchase program which made the equipment considerably lower in price than "retail". ?The employee "knew" someone at the factory and made arrangements to have the CW filter and optional BFO crystal installed. ?Within a few days of receiving the 75S-1, Art "found out" about the receiver and called the employee into his office. ?When confronted with the fact that, by having the filter and crystal installed, and not wanting to experience of the wrath of Art, the employee immediately quit his job.
>
> After quitting, the employee immediately sold the 75S-1 to another amateur radio operator who lived in the Dallas suburb of Garland, Texas. ?That person already had a 75S-1 and put the receiver in his garage where it sat for over 40-years! ?Then, the receiver was traded to another amateur radio operator, who lived east of Dallas in Terrell, Texas, for some closed circuit television equipment. ?The new owner then traded me the 75S-1, and several other pieces of equipment, plus some cash, for an Aerotron 450 MHz FM repeater that I had retired from commercial two-way use. ?I had no idea that the CW filter was installed until I put the receiver on the test bench to check it out. ?I mentioned to the person from which I had obtained the receiver about the CW filter. ?He then checked with the person who had traded the receiver for the television equipment. ?That person related the story about the purchaser losing his job with Collins Radio Company.
>
> The receiver has the quality assurance glyptol on the various connections where the filter is concerned and those marks are exactly the same as the original wiring in the receiver.
>
> Basically, I obtained a new 75S-1 receiver over 40-years after it had been manufactured.
>
> Then, with the 75S-3 and 75S-3A, Art insisted that EVERY receiver was shipped with the 200 Hz CW filter installed. ?When the 75S-3B and 75S-3C receivers came out, Art changed his mind again and those receivers did not come with the CW filter installed. ?Instead, the CW filter was an expensive accessory.
>
> Glen, K9STH
>
>
> On Sunday, July 6, 2014 2:53 PM, David Thompson <thompson at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Mac W2NSA (Long SK) had the KWS-1 and 75A4 in 1959 when I visited ny Grand
> parents in New Jersey.? His KWS-1 had the 32W exciter that came with his rig
> that he bought from Bil Harrison W2AVA.? Soon after my visit Art Collins
> called Mac directly as a long time Collins user and offered him the newer
> KWS-1.? The deal was handled through Bil Harrison.
>
> By 1961 Mac also had the Collins S line including the 30S1.
>
> Another ham I worked often on 20 was Walter W3RIS.? Walter was a Senior VP
> of Westinghouse
> and the first Picture he sent me in late 1959 showed his station included a
> 75A4 and KW-1.? In the picture with Walter was Fred KH6OR and Bill W7PHO.
> In 1961 or 2 Walter sent me another picture with his newer Collins gear
> including the S line and 30S1.? Listening to Fred and Bill showed they both
> ran Collins gear.
>
> AS I recall the original KWS-1 and 32W were offered as kits.? Wonder if any
> were sold by Collins.
>
> 73 Dave K4JRB
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2014 19:24:12 -0600
> From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson" <geraldj at netins.net>
> To: David Thompson <thompson at mindspring.com>
> Cc: collins at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Collins] Art Collins and Collins Radio
> Message-ID: <53B9F6BC.8040803 at netins.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> While working on my MSEE at Iowa State after I took a leave of absence
> from Collins, I created a power network analysis program called PWRMAT
> that handled matrices with complex coefficients for IBM 360. I also
> created a version that ran on an IBM 1600 but it took lots of overlays
> and compiling the box of cards to an executable took all day they told
> me later. It was especially adept and transmission line analysis
> including coupling between adjacent lines and allowed for transpositions
> and their affect on coupling. It basically handled 10 x 10 matrices with
> complex coefficients along with some of the fancy matrix handling for
> the tranmssion line cases.
>
> In the army, the NVL bought a small 360 as a vision analyzer but I got
> to use it until it was proven to work. PWRMAT took more memory than it
> had (128K for the program, 96K in the computer) and I had to teach the
> IBM field reps how to write Job Control Language to use it. After I got
> tossed off it, I got to send my programs to Johns Hopkins from Ft.
> Belvoir so I might have gotten two or three day turnaround.
>
> I think Art's goal was not really to compete in general purpose
> computing but to do primarily airline reservations, a niche which he
> never personally used because he had use of the company airplanes for
> any traveling he wanted to do. The Collins Airline with scheduled
> flights between plants daily. And also served to display the latest in
> Collins avionics to potential customers.
>
> On 7/5/2014 10:07 PM, David Thompson wrote:
> > I remember seeing one of the Collins Computer Booklets while I was at
> > LSU in about 1967 or 8. It was used as a recruiting booklet by Collins.
> > At about this same time IBM replaced the old 7094's in the LSU computer
> > lab with a IBM 360/65 which was Gene Amdahl's first in the 360 series of
> > Enterprise Computers which ran from the 360 series through the later
> > 370, and now 390 series.
> >
> > I went to work for Burroughs Corp which I found in a conflict between
> > the old accounting machine type computers and the newer B series which
> > competed head on with the IBM 360. We installed a B2500 at a big Wire
> > and Cable Company south of Atlanta. The top of the B line was the B5000
> > which was installed at Georgia Tech as a B5500. Then in 1971 Control
> > Data Came along and installed the first of the Cyber Super Computer at
> > Georgia Tech. I met my wife who worked for Control Data in Wind Tunnel
> > testing at Lockheed Georgia .
>
> After I got out of the army one of my grad research assistantship
> projects was trying to move network analysis (predecessors to SPICE)
> programs to the IBM 360. One I recall from a Burroughs computer was
> impossible to move easily even with Fortran source code. The programmers
> used a single matrix with connections in binary and integer and values
> in floating point because apparently Burroughs math processing read
> integer or floating point just based on content, and the 360 wanted them
> kept in separate matrices.
> >
> > The advances of these companies wiped out Collins attempt in the
> > Computer Market. Only IBM is still a player in the market although
> > Seymour Cray left Control Data to form his own Company
> > Cray Research and is still selling his big vector machines to DOD, NASA
> > and the like and his competition is several Japanese Companies.
>
> I think Collin's lack of knowledge of computation wiped out that attempt
> more than the competition.
>
> Today a room full of fast PCs compete pretty good with Cray's when the
> processing can be split into a few thousand parallel tasks. My programs
> don't split at all, I've been thinking sequential logic too long. But
> many of my programs are still running at weather.net supply animated
> radars on demand and the data for the html displays.
> >
> > Dave K4JRB
> >
> 73, Jerry, K0CQ
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2014 19:45:50 -0600
> From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson" <geraldj at netins.net>
> To: Carl <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> Cc: collins at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Collins] 30L-1 Repair
> Message-ID: <53B9FBCE.6080409 at netins.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 7/6/2014 8:58 AM, Carl wrote:
> >>>>>> The cathode circuit and band switch is indeed suspect, but so are the
> >>>>>> tubes and the grid bypassing. These tubes from the late 1930 have
> >>>>>> relatively long leads on the grids and the grounded grid circuit
> >>>>>> depends on getting those grids effectively grounded. A change of grid
> >>>>>> bypass capacitor type or lead length may contribute to the problem or
> >>>>>> 811A made primarily for audio applications may contribute.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ** The symptom points to an input circuit problem. Any disturbance in
> >>>>> the actual grid or parasitic circuits wouldnt surface on 20M but
> >>>>> rather
> >>>>> 10M.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes it does but the 220 pf on the grid was probably chosen to series
> >>>> resonate the grid to ground so the grid was at ground better than the
> >>>> socket pin. Its often necessary to adjust the grid circuit even in a
> >>>> planar tube at VHF to get adequate isolation from the grid in a
> >>>> grounded grid stage.
> >>>
> >>> ** Collins is floating the grid for DC and some Jr engineer likely came
> >>> up with that 220pf method which is very frequency dependent. The stage
> >>> is also poorly neutralized. Did Art stick his nose into this also?? (-;
> >>
> >> They switch the bias to the tubes to cut them off for receive and to
> >> let them cool and the whole PA to cool.
> >
> >
> >
> > ** Having built, repaired, and/or converted over 500 SB-200/201's, plus
> > many 30L1's and similar, since the 60's Im sort of familiar with the
> > circuit and its shortcomings and cures.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> When its three inches from the socket pin to the middle of the grid,
> >> grounding the socket pin doesn't ground the grid, especially above a
> >> few MHz and for sure not at 30 MHz
> >
> >
> > ** Thats not correct as there are thousands of 811A/572B amps in daily
> > use with directly grounded grids that work perfectly well on any band
> > 160 to 6M. Some on HF can be a bit touchy on 10M when the parasitic
> > suppressor resistors have drifted high and neutralization is most always
> > needed on 6M
> > The current production AL-811H and AL-572 with 4 each tubes come with a
> > neutralization circuit; something QST, Heathkit, and Gonset realized in
> > the late 50's - early 60's before the SB-200 went with such a haywire
> > design....copied from the 30L1.
>
> However you do admit they can be a bit less than perfectly stabile.
> >
> > .
> > but series resonating is one way to get
> >> better stability.
> >
> > ** That was a half assed Bill Orr/Eimac suggestion that was later
> > recinded for the SB-220. Unfortunately several manufacturers copied it
> > for 572B and 3-500Z amps and those have continued to have stability
> > problems....often due to build quality.
> >
> Its important, but its a single band result. Its a failure with multiple
> bands.
> >
> > Neutralization is very difficult when the grid leakage
> >> from not being bypassed AT the grid is different for each band.
> >
> >
> > ** Not true as a simple neutralization will reduce the feedthru
> > isolation from about 10-15dB to 25-30dB which is more than sufficient
> > even on 6M for complete stability.
>
> Neutralization is a patch instead of a cure, but it can work though the
> length of the grid wire can make it difficult to get perfect
> neutralization on all bands. Fortunately the stage gain in grounded grid
> is low so perfect neutralization isn't required.
> >
> >
> >> Art probably could have stuck his nose into that but that's too
> >> technical for his knowledge base.
> >
> > ** Not having known Art I'll leave that to others but Im certainly not
> > in awe of Collins design capability in several products aimed at hams.
> > Too much point to point or military requirement mentality.
>
> When I was in Cedar Rapids, the whole HF department worked on military,
> broadcast, and VOA, and ham gear was an occasional sideline. They had
> designs that didn't get to the prototype stage after the S-line because
> Art thought they were not fancy or expensive enough. The Collins
> products that did get to the ham market had qualities the competition
> didn't imitate for decades, like better than 100 Hz frequency
> calibration and stability and better than 30 dB 3rd order intermod
> products on the transmitters. So many a KWM-2 and S-line served on
> military frequencies as did slightly modified KWS-1 and 75A-4. Military
> and government sales did add profits to the ham gear.
>
> What would you have designed differently?
>
> I think I would searched for a remote cutoff pentode for the 75S IF with
> more gain than the 6BA6 so the two stages didn't have to be run up at
> their power dissipation limit to get the desired gain and I would have
> complicated the power supply to have a 250 or 300 volt output for a more
> common 6AQ5 output stage that was cathode biased instead of fixed biased
> from the fragile bias supply to have gotten the desired audio power with
> less heat from the output tube. I would have never used a selenium
> rectifier for the bias supply either.
>
> By the time the 30L-1 got to Collins engineering it pretty well was
> defined from a home project of a couple of the department engineers.
> >
> > Carl
> > KM1H
> >
> 73, Jerry, K0CQ
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Collins Digest, Vol 122, Issue 8
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