[Boatanchors] 6146 vs 6146A vs 6146B or 6146W

[Carl]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Zook" <gzook at yahoo.com>
To: "lee" <pulsarxp at embarqmail.com>; <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>; "Carl" 
<km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] 6146 vs 6146A vs 6146B or 6146W


> And they don't work in my Seneca and several others that I have worked on 
> for others WITHOUT modification.  That is the key, MODIFICATION.  For 
> those who think that the tubes can just be interchanged they are badly 
> mistaken.  Sometimes they can and sometimes they cant.

And just what is that modification? And I dont mean simply retuning which is 
not considered a mod.

>
> Considering the severe disagreements between you and W8JI on QRZ.com, I am 
> surprised that you are now mentioning him!

Tom and I have  been battling for close to 20 years, he has his good days 
and other times he is full of it and many feel the same way.  As the sole 
engineer for a 4th rate company he is able to bull his way thru as there is 
no one there to question him. On the internet there are others who can blow 
him away daily. You note how he completely dances around a subject when 
anyone is boring in and gets his friends to lock the thread.


> In fact, you have had some very uncomplimentary comments about his ideas!

Yep but its not constant. He just likes to believe he is perfect but note 
that over the years QRZ is the only place left he can confuse and confound 
the majority who are arguably mostly ex CBers with the ink still wet on 
their so called no code Tech ham license. He is gone from all the premier 
sites.
We actually do agree at times BTW.

 > W8JI has NOT rebuked my article.

Thats not what I said.


>  He has commented that in his experience that he has not had problems and 
> based on that he has his opinion.  Also, W8JI is VERY critical of Collins' 
> designs and those of Motorola as well.  Of course, it just seems to me, 
> that if the designs by Motorola and Collins were so bad that they would 
> not have sold hundreds of thousands of radios in both the civilian and 
> military markets!


And only a small fraction had a 6146 in it. Youre starting to sound like JI 
who is a master of obfuscation.

The Collins neutralizing circuit was bad from the very beginning and was 
unable to handle many 6146 and A's to be fully neutralized on 10M. On other 
bands it was close enough to work OK. The later version was what should have 
been there since the beginning. Collins was by far NOT the greatest of 
engineering brilliance in several areas, some of it caused by the egomaniac 
at the top. The 30L1 is another example of a firecracker waiting to go off 
even after a steady run of changes during its production life.

And again I dont give a damn about Motorola, GE, RCA, or any other 
commercial VHF FM manufacturer. A local friend has owned an independent 2 
way shop since the 60's and Ive been his go-to guy for taking care of poorly 
designed amp circuits, tube and SS. Selling thousands just means they have a 
good sales force and the end users are about as intelligent as a rock.

>
> By the way, it was not just Motorola that had problems with the 
> 6146B/8298A, General Electric, RCA, and other commercial two-way radio 
> manufacturers did as well.


See above, not all brands of even straight 6146/A's are compatible in some 
gear produced by a tube manufacturer.


> I do not intend to edit my article.  It has been well received in the 9 
> years since it was written and the comments, letters, E-Mail, etc., 
> received have run at least 10:1 confirming my observations.  The article 
> has been reprinted in several countries besides the United States.
>

Well its also derided by many whom I consider well qualified real engineers. 
My email just today is about 8:0 the other way and its similar everytime we 
get into it again.


> No where do I absolutely state that the 6146B/8298A should not be used.  I 
> mention that there are operators who have had no problems at all.  But, I 
> do recommend that the person who replaces the earlier versions of the 
> tubes with the 6146B/8298A be aware that they may have problems and those 
> problems happen much more times than not.

Its been edited since it first appeared as a good CYA move. JI does that 
often as he is blown out of the water or takes a page down entirely.


>
> You have stated on QRZ.com that you have MODIFIED equipment to work with 
> the 6146B/8298A.


I did? Except for replacing sweep tubes I dont recall any but its possible. 
Maybe you mean my using the 12V version in 2 of my  4 TS-830's? Is moving 
some wires considered a mod? I dont think so as the tube hasnt otherwise 
changed.



> I have MODIFIED equipment to work with the 6146B/8298A.  That is NOT a 
> "plug and play" replacement.  Many operators are very comfortable with 
> modifying their equipment but a much larger number are not comfortable 
> doing so.
>
> Again, the article was written to inform operators that there are often 
> problems using the 6146B/8298A in older equipment.  If they are aware of 
> the potential problems then they can proceed knowing the situation.  If 
> they are not aware, then when the do have problems then often that person 
> doesn't have any idea as to the cause of the problems.

If a component hasnt been changed its not a modification. If a component has 
been changed it may be to fix the symptom and not the cause. There is a 
difference between doing a tech fix and an engineered analysis. Both may 
result in the same outcome. In other cases the rig is inherently borderline 
unstable to start with which should be the first thing addressed. Companies 
on a limited budget couldnt afford a lot of time for perfection and a big 
plus is they did not have the test equipment available these days even on a 
hams budget.

The article is worded so that it positively scares non technical types into 
believing their rig will blow up. I run into this all the time on forums, 
email, and customer gear in the shop. "Oh my God, you cant put 6146B's in my 
grandfathers HT-32".....etc is what I have to put up with.
Maybe you believe the article is OK but IMO its way too strong and over the 
top for many; and based upon the current crop of "hams" it will only 
increase.

Carl
KM1H





>
> Glen, K9STH
>
> Website:  http://k9sth.com
>
>
> --- On Tue, 7/5/11, Carl <km1h at jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>
> I agree with Lee and Glen has been preaching this nonsense way too long on 
> these forums plus on QRZ.com where W8JI tore your comments up pretty bad.
>
> Glen, its time to edit that web page and stick to basics and as mentioned 
> nobody gives a damn about Motorola.
>
> The 6146B's even work in a Heathkit Seneca and a Gonset G-50 just fine as 
> well as every HF rig Ive ever tried.
>
>
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