[Boatanchors] IBM Selectric

Mon Dec 27 17:35:42 EST 2010

Come to think about it and it was the earlier 700 series that had the delay 
line, the 800 was advanced to the point of using 1K Mostek IC's and was in 
the early 70's.

Ive no idea when Sanders started R&D on the 700 family, I joined in 69 and 
it was already out around the world.

As far as patents, SDS was enroaching on IBM's peripheal business and as 
small as we were it was giving them fits as we seemed to be far ahead in new 
technology and creativity; SA always was a leading edge outfit in the 
defense biz. I worked directly with an Indian PhD who was so smart it was 
scary and at the same time totally laid back with minimum ego. He was a 
great teacher and mentor.

The IBM 3270 and controller system was a Sanders design in all or part, I 
dont remember the details and IBM did a brazen outright copy of many 
patented features.  SA also had a 360/370 channel interface that was a 
fraction the size, faster and did more and we were selling loads of them to 
storage and other companies. IBM got spanked for copying those patents also; 
Royden Sanders had powerful contacts in DC and wasnt afraid to take on Big 
Blue. I remember we got a lot of $$ plus our 3270 clone systems were 
installed in many of IBM's own facilities where their customers couldnt see 
them as part of the settlement. That really frosted lots of IBM people as 
SDS techs had to do the service also.

We were actually doing some joint work after that and I remember being at 
one of their R&D facilities over in NY when a SDS tech was on site. The 
management guy I was dealing with made sarcastic comments about our 
controller crashing a 370 and the tech wasnt trained well enough to fix it. 
Well, being the easygoing guy I am I asked to see what was happening. After 
an hour of reading crash dumps I told the guy I was with they had a software 
bug. This escalated, I stayed overnight at a motel and the next morning they 
admitted they spent the night and found it exactly where I said it would be, 
made a patch and everything worked.. Channel interface protocol was my 
speciality and they had violated a sequence(-;  my being there was a fluke. 
Remember, this was their R&D place, not a customers so bugs happen.

Shortly after that SDS was sold to Harris and SA concentrated on their core 
defense biz where they made lots of money with less hassles. I had zero 
interest in moving to Dallas...YUK....and went to SA and later Wang.when 
they started throwing big money around for R&D people.

Fun days!

Carl
KM1H

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Liles" <james.liles at comcast.net>
To: <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 3:34 PM
Subject: [Boatanchors] IBM Selectric

> Hi Carl:
> IBM's delay line storage dates to 1964 --- four years earlier --- maybe
> sanders found IBM's idea appealing.  As I recall, there wasn't anyone not
> suing IBM --- even sued them for dressing well --- tried to get them to 
> mess
> up their hair a bit --- kind-a silly I suppose.  Do you happen to recall
> which patents were carried off and if this is one of them.  To this day,
> many don't like successful forward thinking corporations.
>
> Kindest regards Jim K9AXN
>
> ----------------  ORIGINAL MESSAGE --------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 14:34:23 -0500
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] IBM Selectric Terminal
> To: "James Liles" <james.liles at comcast.net>,
> <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <00af01cba5fd$12dddd30$6401a8c0 at DAVES>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> No but I remember the  "memory" mechanical delay line that Sanders Data
> Systems Division of Sanders Associates had in 1968 for their 810 multi 
> user
> word processor.....stolen from Sanders maybe?
>
> IBM tried to steal several patents from Sanders and had to pay some big
> bucks for being naughty.
>
> Sanders is also where Pong was developed. Today it is a thriving part of
> BAE.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "James Liles" <james.liles at comcast.net>
> To: <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 12:12 PM
> Subject: [Boatanchors] IBM Selectric Terminal
>
>
>>
>> An interesting fact about the Selectric.  The chrome plating process on
>> the
>> plastic type head was never patented.  GM, Ford, and Chrysler desperately
>> wanted the secret to use on their bumpers and other plastic components 
>> but
>> IBM would not budge.  The reason that it wasn't patented was that any
>> process that is "valuable enough and patented will be stolen".  The auto
>> engineers didn't crack the code for years.
>>
>> It was the best output device in it's time, used by nearly every computer
>> vendor but a mechanical Freddy Kruger!
>>
>> Not the right place for this but do any of you remember the first telecom
>> storage device that IBM implemented for the 1401?  The sonic delay line
>> that
>> could store one 132 character line of data.  Was a spiral of hardened 
>> wire
>> housed in a 1 foot square by 1 inch container.  It used a transducer to
>> twist the wire and another at the other end to sense the twist and
>> re-cycle
>> the data with a sync character.
>>
>> Last but not least, did anyone work with the 90 ohm tri-lead disaster or
>> virtual triplex 67's project (NASA) in upstate NY??
>>
>> Kindest regards Jim K9AXN
>
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