[Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question

Thu Mar 12 08:49:07 EDT 2009

OK, thats good info Jeff. Thats the same procedure I use to setup and 
evaluate my high power modulators.

I'll assume that you have set the correct 6146 screen voltage as per the 
manual and are using regulated screen voltage on the 6AU5's. And the 
6AU5 regulated bias set for 40ma idle current. Im just scanning thru the 
manual here.

I also have to assume that the modulation xfmr is an original and not 
some unknown impedance replacement.

Another step to evaluate the xfmr would be to isolate the mod xfmr 
secondary from any DC. You do this by shunt feeding thru a cap and 
choke. I dont know if you have the parts to do this plus that rig is 
sure packed tight. I thought my AF-67 was packed!

Since this is a test only and we are not looking at the audio bandpass 
the values arent very critical. Any 2-10 uF 1kV oil filled (no 
electrolytics here) cap and a 10H or greater choke that can handle 100ma 
is fine.  Connect the cap from the bottom end of the xfmr secondary to 
ground. Seperate the modulator and RF B+ and feed the RF side into the 
bottom of the choke. The output of the choke goes to both the top end of 
the xfmr secondary and off to the 6146. The xfmr has DC applied to the 
secondary but no current flows.

I dont suspect the xfmr at this point but rather something that is 
affecting a DC voltage.

Another thought as I reread this thread. How are you measuring the 
modulation percentage?

Carl
KM1H

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Anderson" <jca1955 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Bob Macklin" <macklinbob at msn.com>; "Boatanchors" 
<boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question

> Hi Bob,
>
> Just ran a test...the 6146 plate voltage is 560 volts and the plate
> current is 120 mA in xmit.  This results in an equivalent resistance 
> of
> 4.7K ohms.
>
> I've just disconnected the plate cap from the 6146 and connected a 
> 4.5K
> ohm power resistor from the mod. transformer secondary to ground.
> Measuring (via a voltage divider, because my scope can't handle the
> voltages), I see the same peak-to-peak swing across this power 
> resistor
> as I see when the tube is in-circuit.
>
> So...it seems either:
>
> 1.  The transformer is bad (shorted turns, etc.)
> 2.  The Morrow manual is wrong (they state 100% modulation is 
> achievable).
> 3.  Something else is going on.
>
> Thoughts on what to do next, anyone?
>
> Has anyone looked at a Morrow's waveform in AM?  Can you get 100%
> modulation?
>
> Does anyone have a Morrow transmitter that they can quickly pop the
> cover off of and make a resistance measurement across the transformer
> primary & secondary windings (I'll tell you where).
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Jeff, k6jca
>
> http://k6jca.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Bob Macklin wrote:
>> If the modulator is saturating a 50% modulation it sounds to me as if 
>> the
>> modulation transformer impeadance is not correct.
>>
>> You need test the modulation transformer with the final disconnected 
>> but
>> with a resistive load equal to what the final appears to be.
>>
>> Bob Macklin
>> K5MYJ
>> Kent (Seattle), Wa,
>> "Real Radios Glow in the Dark"
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeff Anderson" <jca1955 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> Cc: "Boatanchors" <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Carl,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply.  The PA plate and screen voltages also look
>>> clipped when the modulator input begins clipping (because the 
>>> modulator
>>> grids start conducting) -- but this shouldn't be too surprising.  If 
>>> the
>>> input signal clips, then the output will look clipped, too.  And
>>> increasing the mic gain further just results in broader 
>>> "flat-topping".
>>>
>>> Don't know if the modulator xfrmr is designed for DC voltage on the
>>> secondary, but I assume it is (it's connected between B+ and the PA
>>>
>> platel).
>>
>>> There's plenty of gain up to the input of the push-pull modulator (I 
>>> can
>>> easily push the input into clipping as I increase the mic gain) --  
>>> it's
>>> just not swinging the B+ as much as I think it should.  In other 
>>> words,
>>> the gain through the push-pull modulator stage seems a bit light. 
>>> The
>>> only reasons I can think that this might be are:
>>>
>>> 1.  Tube gm incorrect.  But I've verified the bias current.
>>> 2.  Tube(s) bad.  But I've exchanged both tubes with others -- no
>>> difference.
>>> 3.  Transformer bad.  Not verified.  Not sure how to verify.
>>> 4.  Transformer secondary load bad.  I've swapped 6146 PA tubes --  
>>> no
>>> difference.  Plate current is adjusted per manual, so I'm assuming 
>>> the
>>> plate resistance is to spec.  Perhaps there's another parallel, 
>>> "audio
>>> frequency range" resistance that's lowering the overall gain?
>>>
>>> Regarding the load on the modulation transformer secondary -- you're
>>> saying that it only sees the PA plate load, but not the parallel
>>> "Antenna" load, right?  (I'm assuming that's because the antenna &
>>> loading circuit appear as a very high impedance at audio 
>>> frequencies,
>>> and thus are insignificant compared to the PA plate resistance.)
>>>
>>> (By the way -- a week or two ago I checked the modulator's voltages 
>>> and
>>> performance -- voltages were correct (per manual), and operation was
>>> fairly symmetric (as I recall).  Just low gain.)
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>>
>>> - Jeff, k6jca
>>>
>>> http://k6jca.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl wrote:
>>>
>>>> What happens to the plate and screen voltage at those peaks?
>>>>
>>>> Ive not owned a Morrow but would probably isolate the audio section
>>>> and place a resistive load of the correct value across the 
>>>> modulator
>>>> secondary and with no DC. Use resistors that are non inductive at
>>>> audio frequencies.
>>>>
>>>> The RF stage load to calculate the resistor is Ep divided  by Ip.
>>>>
>>>> Is the modulation xfmr designed for DC voltage on the secondary?
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>> KM1H
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Anderson"
>>>> <jca1955 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "Boatanchors" <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:36 PM
>>>> Subject: [Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm troubleshooting a Morrow MB-565 transmitter (very similar,
>>>>> electrically, to the MB-560).  I can't get more than about 50%
>>>>> modulation in AM mode.  I've checked the voltages and resistances, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> everything seems to be fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plate voltage is about 550 VDC.  Modulation seems to be limited by 
>>>>> the
>>>>> modulator (push-pull).  That is, as I turn the Mic Gain up I see 
>>>>> the
>>>>> input at the grids of the push-pull tubes start to clip (when this
>>>>> happens when the grids become forward-biased -- that is, the grids 
>>>>> are
>>>>> biased at -44 vdc, and the input voltage peaks are high enough to 
>>>>> raise
>>>>> the grids to 0 volts).  But even with this large input signal to 
>>>>> the
>>>>> modulator, my max modulation is only about 50%.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this typical for Morrow transmitters?
>>>>>
>>>>> One possibility, of course, is that there's something wrong with 
>>>>> the
>>>>> modulation transformer, but I don't know how to verify this.  I 
>>>>> have
>>>>> measured the primary and secondary resistances -- both measure 
>>>>> about
>>>>>
>> 110
>>
>>>>> ohms, but I've nothing to compare this to, so I don't know if this 
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>> in
>>
>>>>> the ballpark or wildly out of spec.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for any help you can provide!
>>>>>
>>>>> - Jeff, K6JCA
>>>>>
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>>
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