[Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question

Wed Mar 11 22:51:57 EDT 2009

If my understanding of modulation theory has not

totally gone away since tech school, to get 100%

modulation under these circumstances, you'd need

to get a peak positive voltage on the high side of 

the modulation transformer secondary of 1120 Volts!

What are the plate, screen, and bias voltages of

the 6AU5GT modulator tubes?  Is the bias output

voltage of your power supply between -67 and -75V?

Plate voltage on the 6AU5GT tubes should be virtually

the same as plate voltage on the 6146.

Unfortunately, there is no voltage chart in my MB-565

manual.

My MB-565 has a broken drive mechanism for the VFO

and I have no idea where I might find a replacement

other than finding a total junker MB-565,

73 - Mac, K2GKK/5

Oklahoma City, OK

> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:36:38 -0700
> From: jca1955 at sbcglobal.net
> To: macklinbob at msn.com; boatanchors at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Just ran a test...the 6146 plate voltage is 560 volts and the plate 
> current is 120 mA in xmit. This results in an equivalent resistance of 
> 4.7K ohms.
> 
> I've just disconnected the plate cap from the 6146 and connected a 4.5K 
> ohm power resistor from the mod. transformer secondary to ground. 
> Measuring (via a voltage divider, because my scope can't handle the 
> voltages), I see the same peak-to-peak swing across this power resistor 
> as I see when the tube is in-circuit.
> 
> So...it seems either:
> 
> 1. The transformer is bad (shorted turns, etc.)
> 2. The Morrow manual is wrong (they state 100% modulation is achievable).
> 3. Something else is going on.
> 
> Thoughts on what to do next, anyone?
> 
> Has anyone looked at a Morrow's waveform in AM? Can you get 100% 
> modulation?
> 
> Does anyone have a Morrow transmitter that they can quickly pop the 
> cover off of and make a resistance measurement across the transformer 
> primary & secondary windings (I'll tell you where).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> - Jeff, k6jca
> 
> http://k6jca.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> Bob Macklin wrote:
> > If the modulator is saturating a 50% modulation it sounds to me as if the
> > modulation transformer impeadance is not correct.
> >
> > You need test the modulation transformer with the final disconnected but
> > with a resistive load equal to what the final appears to be.
> >
> > Bob Macklin
> > K5MYJ
> > Kent (Seattle), Wa,
> > "Real Radios Glow in the Dark"
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Jeff Anderson" <jca1955 at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> > Cc: "Boatanchors" <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question
> >
> >
> > 
> >> Hi Carl,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the reply. The PA plate and screen voltages also look
> >> clipped when the modulator input begins clipping (because the modulator
> >> grids start conducting) -- but this shouldn't be too surprising. If the
> >> input signal clips, then the output will look clipped, too. And
> >> increasing the mic gain further just results in broader "flat-topping".
> >>
> >> Don't know if the modulator xfrmr is designed for DC voltage on the
> >> secondary, but I assume it is (it's connected between B+ and the PA
> >> 
> > platel).
> > 
> >> There's plenty of gain up to the input of the push-pull modulator (I can
> >> easily push the input into clipping as I increase the mic gain) -- it's
> >> just not swinging the B+ as much as I think it should. In other words,
> >> the gain through the push-pull modulator stage seems a bit light. The
> >> only reasons I can think that this might be are:
> >>
> >> 1. Tube gm incorrect. But I've verified the bias current.
> >> 2. Tube(s) bad. But I've exchanged both tubes with others -- no
> >> difference.
> >> 3. Transformer bad. Not verified. Not sure how to verify.
> >> 4. Transformer secondary load bad. I've swapped 6146 PA tubes -- no
> >> difference. Plate current is adjusted per manual, so I'm assuming the
> >> plate resistance is to spec. Perhaps there's another parallel, "audio
> >> frequency range" resistance that's lowering the overall gain?
> >>
> >> Regarding the load on the modulation transformer secondary -- you're
> >> saying that it only sees the PA plate load, but not the parallel
> >> "Antenna" load, right? (I'm assuming that's because the antenna &
> >> loading circuit appear as a very high impedance at audio frequencies,
> >> and thus are insignificant compared to the PA plate resistance.)
> >>
> >> (By the way -- a week or two ago I checked the modulator's voltages and
> >> performance -- voltages were correct (per manual), and operation was
> >> fairly symmetric (as I recall). Just low gain.)
> >>
> >> Thanks again,
> >>
> >> - Jeff, k6jca
> >>
> >> http://k6jca.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> Carl wrote:
> >> 
> >>> What happens to the plate and screen voltage at those peaks?
> >>>
> >>> Ive not owned a Morrow but would probably isolate the audio section
> >>> and place a resistive load of the correct value across the modulator
> >>> secondary and with no DC. Use resistors that are non inductive at
> >>> audio frequencies.
> >>>
> >>> The RF stage load to calculate the resistor is Ep divided by Ip.
> >>>
> >>> Is the modulation xfmr designed for DC voltage on the secondary?
> >>>
> >>> Carl
> >>> KM1H
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Anderson"
> >>> <jca1955 at sbcglobal.net>
> >>> To: "Boatanchors" <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:36 PM
> >>> Subject: [Boatanchors] Morrow Modulation Question
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>> I'm troubleshooting a Morrow MB-565 transmitter (very similar,
> >>>> electrically, to the MB-560). I can't get more than about 50%
> >>>> modulation in AM mode. I've checked the voltages and resistances, and
> >>>> everything seems to be fine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Plate voltage is about 550 VDC. Modulation seems to be limited by the
> >>>> modulator (push-pull). That is, as I turn the Mic Gain up I see the
> >>>> input at the grids of the push-pull tubes start to clip (when this
> >>>> happens when the grids become forward-biased -- that is, the grids are
> >>>> biased at -44 vdc, and the input voltage peaks are high enough to raise
> >>>> the grids to 0 volts). But even with this large input signal to the
> >>>> modulator, my max modulation is only about 50%.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is this typical for Morrow transmitters?
> >>>>
> >>>> One possibility, of course, is that there's something wrong with the
> >>>> modulation transformer, but I don't know how to verify this. I have
> >>>> measured the primary and secondary resistances -- both measure about
> >>>> 
> > 110
> > 
> >>>> ohms, but I've nothing to compare this to, so I don't know if this is
> >>>> 
> > in
> > 
> >>>> the ballpark or wildly out of spec.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for any help you can provide!
> >>>>
> >>>> - Jeff, K6JCA
> >>>>
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> >>> 
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