[ARRL-OK] [SPAM]Re: [OKtraders] Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
DC Boyer via ARRL-OK
arrl-ok at mailman.qth.net
Fri Sep 5 11:26:58 EDT 2014
Wow......... FINALLY some intelligent comments - Thank you Kim !
By the way, I thought the purpose of this forum/reflector was to assist individuals in the buying and selling of used amateur radio gear.......? But, as several have pointed out, like my home in a neighborhood with a HOA, I can just leave if I don't like it :)
I love you guys - you continue to provide me with safe, clean amusement
73
D. Craig Boyer, W5CCP
2804 Verona Court
Edmond, OK 73034
On Friday, September 5, 2014 8:56 AM, "Kimberly Elmore cw_de_n5op at sbcglobal.net [OKtraders]" <OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I've snipped the rather extended quotes from previous exchanges.
I think this is a good, reasonable way to address what has become onerous private intrusion into a Federally licensed service. This law will simply extend PRB-1 (with which I still have problems) to include those amateurs that fall under CC&Rs. The Amateur Service is, first and foremost, a Federally licensedradio service. It exists solely to serve the nation and its citizens through five very specific criteria. They are ("Basis and Purpose," straight out of Part 97):
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts..
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
Wemay view ham radio as a personal hobby, akin to, say, model building, wood working or antique car restoration. But that's not why we exist or are allowed to continue and it's not why we're licensed by a Federal agency. The Federal government has a legitimate interest in maintaining a viable Amateur service and private restrictions that act to fundamentally inhibit the Amateur service's ability to serve any or all of its five primary functions should be addressed so as to relieve those restrictions. That's what the proposed law does, and it's a Good Idea.
Kim Elmore N5OP
On Thursday, September 4, 2014 10:12 PM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk at hotmail.com> wrote:
The ability to receive satellite signals with the "small" dish was held by the US Supreme Court to fall under the jurisdiction of the 1st amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It applied to the US general population as a whole. It's a VERY big difference here where an attempt is being made to make one large group's rights and privileges subordinate to those of an extremely smaller group.
This is BAD, BAD, BAD law being proposed which could set an even worse precedent to be applied ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, FOR ANYTHING AT ALL!
Government has only ONE basic objective and that is to make itself ever more powerful and in more complete control of the citizenry! It is the ONLY thing that matters to the politicians and bureaucrats. They do not give a tinker's damn about us in any respect other than the extent to which they can control us.
* * * * * * * * * * *
* 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
* (Since 30 Nov
53) *
* k2gkk hotmail com *
* Oklahoma City, OK *
* USAF & FAA (Ret.) *
* * * * * * * * * * *
> From: n0irw at me.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 18:20:57 -0500
> To: k2gkk at hotmail.com
> CC: arrl-ok at mailman.qth.net; bilwalsh at swbell.net; oktraders at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [ARRL-OK] [SPAM]Re: [OKtraders] Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
>
>
Yes Mac, they can apply laws retroactively....the 18" satellite dishes.....all satellite dishes used to be banned in HOA's.....now they are legal in ALL HOA's.
>
> Kevin
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Keep thy airspeed, lest the ground shall rise up and
smite thy machine.
>
> > On Sep 4, 2014, at 5:31 PM, "D C _Mac_ Macdonald k2gkk at hotmail.com [OKtraders]" <OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > Many years back (25 or more, I think) another ham (maybe in Nichols Hills) ran into grief with CCIRs. When the lawsuits ended, it turned out that whoever was "in charge" of compliance had done nothing for years about many different "violations" and that
basically voided the whole shebang!
> >
> > I would have
NO problem with a NEW law that would prohibit CCIRs banning ham antennas for FUTURE developments, but the fact remains that laws that prohibit or permit something that was previously permitted or prohibited can NOT be applied retroactively. I can't recall up the legal Latin wording of that right now, but doing that "just ain't right!"
> >
> > I hope that my meaning in the above is clear.
> >
> > My previous QTH had no prohibitions and I had a nice 60 foot tower and about 3/8 acre in an OKC development. When Mister Twister came calling on 3 May 1999 and destroyed house, vehicles, and antennas, I knew to check things out in any new location. I carefully read the Oklahoma City documents pertaining to such stuff and found
NO such restrictions and proceeded to buy a house
there.
> >
> > There are many ways to do "stealth" antennas; i.e., small wire held up in TV screw-in standoff insulators around the eaves of the house.
> >
> > If you are "stuck" just get sneaky!
> >
> > * * * * * * * * * * *
> > * 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
> > * (Since 30 Nov 53) *
> > * k2gkk hotmail com *
> > * Oklahoma City, OK *
> > * USAF & FAA
(Ret.) *
> > * * * * * * * * * * *
> >
> >
> > CC: oktraders at yahoogroups.com; aresoklahoma at yahoogroups.com
> > From: OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:53:20 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [ARRL-OK] [OKtraders] Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
> >
> >
> > Like I
said, we had an HOA when I bought this place, no pigs remember. Considering that there were no real restrictions there were no, or relatively few, problems. Then, the roads through the edition, gravel, got so bad and the standard response from the county was that it was private property the county was not responsible for upkeep. The HOA had nothing so there was little hope of getting anything done. Finally th post office said that if they weren't repaired they would require boxes out on the main roads for a mail drop. Then the school bus said they would stop going through th eedition to pick up the kids. They would have to be picked up on the main roads. After a LOT of argument with the county that it was a "public" road as it is open to main roads on both ends they finally relented and started running a grader down it once in a while. Then, we got a new county commissioner and his wife was a whiz with grant requests. She got a grant to do some paving
on our main street. To get to the point of this story some of the residents got their panties in a wad because their street didn't get paved. One ugly thing after another and it finally came down to those disaffected residents sued the HOA. The HOA, having nothing to fight the suit with, or desire to pursue it, just dissolved. Now we have no HOA and no restriction. [ Yay! I can get a pig now. Just kidding ]
> >
> > SO, if you really want to kill it off just sue the heck out of the HOA for every nit picking thing you can think of.
> >
> > On 09/04/2014 04:29 PM, k3yc at arrl.net wrote:
> > Guys: It is not as simple as “Don’t buy there”! I too live in a
HOA now, though I did not really want too. In 2003 I lived on a 5 acre tract in Choctaw with large home, pool, huge workshop, and a 70 ft. tower. I had just retired in 2000, and thought this was the place I would live out my life. In my entire life I had never lived close to any neighbor. Out of the blue I get a Cancer and death diagnosis. I was told to expect to live no more than 3-6 months. My first thought was, guess I had better get some grave sites purchased (and did), and must get my wife in a place she could live and take care of. Sold that place at a huge loss needing to sell quickly in a buyers market at the time. While I started treatments which made me extremely sick, we started looking a smaller places for her to live after my expiration. Yes there were non HOA candidates, but all had to much land for her to handle. After the fact it was found that every housing addition between Midwest
City and Harrah, all had HOA’s. Since she needed to be in a much smaller home on as little land as possible and near groceries, hospitals, doctors, gas stations, etc; we elected reluctantly to purchase a home in a MWC development consisting eventually of 166 homes all within 10 ft of each other. Ham radio was at the time no longer a consideration and I sold tons of my equipment quickly as possible at mostly losses. The day we signed the contract I was so sick I could not even read it and barely signed it. The new house was to be built on a small lot and once finished, we did not have to take it if we did not want it despite the fact it was built to her specifications, more or less. At the time, only about 20 or so of the eventual total of homes were already built. At the time we knew nothing about HOAs, and during contract negotiations, the builder never once mentioned that it was in an HOA. Found that out sometime
later, but since I was to expire, it was not considered a show stopper. Well, I did not expire (Another story for another day!) and we did take the home once built (worst mistake of all), and we now live in it probably for the rest of our lives and we hate it with a passion (the closeness to neighbors and the HOA).
> >
> > Well, once I was well enough (in remission of undetermined length), I began to think about radio again. That was when I found out I was in an HOA that was totally under the control of the developer, not the builder which is always the case. I refused to accept the house without a copy of the HOA CCRs. Once in hand, I read it all very carefully and with consultation of an attorney. At this time about one third of the 166 houses had been constructed. The president of the HOA was the
developer who was under no
requirement to hand control to the residents until all homes were constructed. LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT DEVELOPERS WRITE THE CCR’S MOSTLY FOR THEMSELVES WITH LITTLE CONSIDERATION OF THE EVENTUAL PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN AND UNDER IT. CCRs are a means to insure his investment. The on site vice president was his daughter and husband with all board members being other relatives. WORSE THOUGH, is the CCRs are not well thought out and basically are copies obtained off the internet or from other sources. To this day, the developer is the only party who can effectively modify the CCRs none of which have ever been successfully changed for other reasons having to do with disinterest of the home owners. Once the development was finished, the CCRs make all the owners responsible for the upkeep of the common property which in ours consists of 6 acres to be mowed regularly and a pool.
>
>
> > Fortunately, the CCRs contained just one provision concerning antenna’s by limiting the height of same to no more than 7 feet above the highest peak of one’s roof. This is a very open CCR provision. It was clear that I could put an antenna on my roof legally but sure would be ugly. So, I petitioned the HOA (developer) for permission to instead construct a tower no higher than 37 ft. He first denied me, then I appealed and he put it up to a vote of the home owners. I met with them at the pool and spent a couple hours trying to educate them on why approving would benefit all of us. In the end, I won my petition, but at the cost of being the FIRST President of the HOA once turned over to the property owners. I served in that position for 3-4 years and basically stood up the HOA based on the CCRs of the developer which proved to be more of a
hindrance than
a help across the board. Those CCRs caused nothing but animosity between neighbors ever since. Now not enough owners will show up at annual meeting to meet the CCR required number to conduct business. Our HOA is nothing but a big big mess and the developer could care less as he has his money and no responsibilities whatsoever. Now here is the kicker: As 1st owner president, I visited every home of the 166 at one time or the other and found very few (the early ones who attended my tower meeting) who even knew they were living in and HOA and had no idea of the CCRs; until I had to enforce same many of which I personally did not agree with. My first act was to reproduce and deliver the CCRs to all home owners. Our development had numerous builders none of whom bothered to advise purchasers of that fact before hand. Today, I have totally divorced myself from any HOA meeting or business from now on.
Every meeting was just a nightmare of unhappy owners bitching at me for things that I had no control over. To this day, no legal CCR changes have been made for lack of owner participation and interest. So, now a couple of unelected people run it as they see fit with absolutely no enforcement of the CCRs that matter.
> >
> > Okay, technically it is possible that I could sell out and go...........WHERE? All the communities in eastern OKla county are HOA’s. Wife and I are in our 70’s and not in best of health. Worse yet, this house we now have is ours with out mortgage and doubt we could ever get out of it what we have invested. We do not like it much, but feel we are stuck here until one or the other of us dies, and the other goes to assisted living
somewhere.
> >
> > No one in Ham Radio if in their right mind would knowingly buy into and HOA except under circumstances beyond their control. I support the ARRL CCR initiative. HOAs are nothing more and nothing less than a device to insure that the investment of developers cannot be infringed, written mostly if not soley for their benefit, and to relieve same of any continuing responsibilities and costs afterwards. My HOA cannot by CCR be dissolved without a 100% vote in favor of same. That will not happen in a million years since we cannot get 35 owners to even attend the annual meeting. If ever one of these homes burns, many other will also, due to the closeness of all to each other. City of MWC could care less, they just look at the tax base increase, so grant developers free rein to stuff them
together as tightly as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 2:58 PM
> > To: Yahoo Lincoln
> > Cc: Billie Walsh ; oktraders at yahoogroups.com ; aresoklahoma at yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [ARRL-OK] [OKtraders] Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
> >
> >
> >
> > Well said Reid......
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > Keep thy airspeed, lest the ground shall rise up and smite thy machine.
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2014, at 2:43 PM, "Yahoo Lincoln lincoln555 at yahoo.com [OKtraders]" <OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > OK. I’ll be the jerk.
> >
> > While I automatically and respectfully stipulate that Mac and Tom are far more knowledgable about matters related to amateur radio, radio operating procedures, and radio technology in general, I must take exception to the assertion that this bill should not be supported because it merely allows the government to "abrogate agreements" and thus “makes perfect sense” that it constitutes the “theft of somebody else’s property and rights.”
> >
> > HOGWASH.
> >
> > I live in an HOA. We have a covenant restricting such external antennae and related construction. I knew this going in to the purchase of the home and
property. Therefore, I erected an attic antenna. In May, I had to replace my roof, and experienced the same “faraday cage” effect on HF bands. I have never intended to breach the rules by erecting a tower and beam or anything like that. But, It WOULD be possible for me to erect a dipole of reasonable length to operate on the most populated bands and be virtually out-of-sight, if I were ALLOWED.
> >
> > Here is where I take umbrage at not backing this bill because of government intervention: this bill is NEEDED BECAUSE of GOVERNMENT
INTERVENTION.
> >
> > I DO agree with the assertion of a 'tyrannical government’ in certain situations. BUT this is the gov’s chance to actually do something RIGHT for a change. This is not a bill about "abrogating contracts," this is a bill about FREEDOM. Our founders expressed the vision of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ham radio is my PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. I must have the LIBERTY to do so, and thus need REASONABLE accommodation (as the bill explicitly states). And (who knows?) it could lead to the safeguard or protection of LIFE; the life of my neighbors whom I wish to serve through this hobby. (i.e. In storm spotting, I have seen more funnel clouds from my back yard than I EVER did whilst mobile!)
> >
> > So people established “pretty” neighborhoods where wannabe trophy wives wouldn’t have to endure the supposed eyesore of a length of wire. These are the same pantywaist crybabies who will undoubtedly be asking for OUR help after a calamity because their phones and TVs don’t work. Given the exemplary record of ham radio to serve the community, WE will be the ones to effectively serve them. The onus will be on we - the ham radio operators - to prove to them that, with reasonable accommodation, are just as important to the neighborhood as perhaps the tech hogs with two ugly sat dishes bolted on the FRONT of their homes.
> >
> > It cuts both ways: if you don’t want to
live in a neighborhood
with ham antennas, DON’T MOVE THERE. In the mean time, we hams will be providing critical services to first-responders, emergency operations officials, and even media to see these same neighbors through whatever calamities we face. It’s called “The Oklahoma Standard.” Back this bill, and allow ourselves to do more of the same.
> >
> > Reid Mullins
> > N5QAR
> >
> > p.s. - and if we happen to get a QSO from Japan via EME between disasters… well that’s just gravy. As my Dad used to say, “at least we’re not robbin’ 7-11s."
>
>
> > On Sep 4, 2014, at
11:15 AM, Billie Walsh bilwalsh at swbell.net [OKtraders] <OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 09/04/2014 10:56 AM, Tom k8jrm at arrl.net [OKtraders] wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Mac, K2GKK, as usual, makes perfect sense! Our friends and neighbors have rights, too! A little common sense on the part
of the Amateur Radio community seems to be in order. We, as a group, have been "over-sold " on the need to have a tower with a large beam to enjoy our hobby. In fact, a simple dipole or vertical in the backyard is enough for most operating we do.
> >
> > If we want a big antenna farm, we should do as K2GKK suggests move to the where we can legally have one! If we don't want to or can't move, a remote base operation might be in order!
> >
> > Remember guys, Ham Radio is a hobby! Not a vocation! Suggest re-reading the Amateur's Code that appears in the front of all ARRL Handbook.
> >
>
> 73, Tom, K8JRM in OKC
> > Licensed since 1958
> >
> >
> > Twenty odd years ago when I made the deal on my present home the first thing I asked was what restrictions there were. The only one was no pigs so I figured I could live with that. I didn't care what the price was until I knew what the restrictions were.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
> >
> > _ _... ..._ _
> > _._ ._ .....
._.. ... .._
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
> >
> > _ _... ..._ _
> > _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________
> ___________________ Information __________________________
>
> ARRL Oklahoma Section Manager - Kevin O'Dell, N0IRW n0irw at arrl.org
> Oklahoma Section Web page http://www.arrl.org/Groups/view/oklahoma
>
> _________________________________
>
>
> This list is for the discussion of topics relating to amateur radio in the ARRL Oklahoma Section. Anyone is welcome to post to the list. It was set up in order to improve communication between the section leaders and members.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ARRL-OK mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arrl-ok
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:ARRL-OK at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________
___________________ Information __________________________
ARRL Oklahoma Section Manager - Kevin O'Dell, N0IRW n0irw at arrl.org
Oklahoma Section Web page http://www.arrl.org/Groups/view/oklahoma
_________________________________
This list is for the discussion of topics relating to amateur radio in the ARRL Oklahoma Section. Anyone is welcome to post to the list. It was
set up in order to improve communication between the section leaders and members.
______________________________________________________________
ARRL-OK mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/arrl-ok
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:ARRL-OK at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
__._,_.___
________________________________
Posted by: Kimberly Elmore <cw_de_n5op at sbcglobal.net>
________________________________
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (15)
To unsubscribe from this group sends an email to:
OKtraders-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com.
Visit Your Group * New Members 1
• Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
.
__,_._,___
More information about the ARRL-OK
mailing list