[ARRL-OK] [SPAM]Re: [OKtraders] Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
D C _Mac_ Macdonald
k2gkk at hotmail.com
Thu Sep 4 18:31:23 EDT 2014
Many years back (25 or more, I think) another ham (maybe in Nichols Hills) ran into grief with CCIRs. When the lawsuits ended, it turned out that whoever was "in charge" of compliance had done nothing for years about many different "violations" and that basically voided the whole shebang!
I would have NO problem with a NEW law that would prohibit CCIRs banning ham antennas for FUTURE developments, but the fact remains that laws that prohibit or permit something that was previously permitted or prohibited can NOT be applied retroactively. I can't recall up the legal Latin wording of that right now, but doing that "just ain't right!"
I hope that my meaning in the above is clear.
My previous QTH had no prohibitions and I had a nice 60 foot tower and about 3/8 acre in an OKC development. When Mister Twister came calling on 3 May 1999 and destroyed house, vehicles, and antennas, I knew to check things out in any new location. I carefully read the Oklahoma City documents pertaining to such stuff and found NO such restrictions and proceeded to buy a house there.
There are many ways to do "stealth" antennas; i.e., small wire held up in TV screw-in standoff insulators around the eaves of the house.
If you are "stuck" just get sneaky!
* * * * * * * * * * *
* 73 - Mac, K2GKK/5 *
* (Since 30 Nov 53) *
* k2gkk hotmail com *
* Oklahoma City, OK *
* USAF & FAA (Ret.) *
* * * * * * * * * * *
CC: oktraders at yahoogroups.com; aresoklahoma at yahoogroups.com
From: OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:53:20 -0500
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [ARRL-OK] [OKtraders] Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
Like I said, we had an HOA when I
bought this place, no pigs remember. Considering that there were
no real restrictions there were no, or relatively few, problems.
Then, the roads through the edition, gravel, got so bad and the
standard response from the county was that it was private property
the county was not responsible for upkeep. The HOA had nothing so
there was little hope of getting anything done. Finally th post
office said that if they weren't repaired they would require boxes
out on the main roads for a mail drop. Then the school bus said
they would stop going through th eedition to pick up the kids.
They would have to be picked up on the main roads. After a LOT of
argument with the county that it was a "public" road as it is open
to main roads on both ends they finally relented and started
running a grader down it once in a while. Then, we got a new
county commissioner and his wife was a whiz with grant requests.
She got a grant to do some paving on our main street. To get to
the point of this story some of the residents got their panties in
a wad because their street didn't get paved. One ugly thing after
another and it finally came down to those disaffected residents
sued the HOA. The HOA, having nothing to fight the suit with, or
desire to pursue it, just dissolved. Now we have no HOA and no
restriction. [ Yay! I can get a pig now. Just kidding ]
SO, if you really want to kill it off just sue the heck out of the
HOA for every nit picking thing you can think of.
On 09/04/2014 04:29 PM, k3yc at arrl.net wrote:
Guys: It is not as simple as
“Don’t buy there”! I too live in a HOA now, though I
did not really want too. In 2003 I lived on a 5 acre
tract in Choctaw with large home, pool, huge workshop,
and a 70 ft. tower. I had just retired in 2000, and
thought this was the place I would live out my life. In
my entire life I had never lived close to any neighbor.
Out of the blue I get a Cancer and death diagnosis. I
was told to expect to live no more than 3-6 months. My
first thought was, guess I had better get some grave
sites purchased (and did), and must get my wife in a
place she could live and take care of. Sold that place
at a huge loss needing to sell quickly in a buyers
market at the time. While I started treatments which
made me extremely sick, we started looking a smaller
places for her to live after my expiration. Yes there
were non HOA candidates, but all had to much land for
her to handle. After the fact it was found that every
housing addition between Midwest City and Harrah, all
had HOA’s. Since she needed to be in a much smaller
home on as little land as possible and near groceries,
hospitals, doctors, gas stations, etc; we elected
reluctantly to purchase a home in a MWC development
consisting eventually of 166 homes all within 10 ft of
each other. Ham radio was at the time no longer a
consideration and I sold tons of my equipment quickly as
possible at mostly losses. The day we signed the
contract I was so sick I could not even read it and
barely signed it. The new house was to be built on a
small lot and once finished, we did not have to take it
if we did not want it despite the fact it was built to
her specifications, more or less. At the time, only
about 20 or so of the eventual total of homes were
already built. At the time we knew nothing about HOAs,
and during contract negotiations, the builder never once
mentioned that it was in an HOA. Found that out
sometime later, but since I was to expire, it was not
considered a show stopper. Well, I did not expire
(Another story for another day!) and we did take the
home once built (worst mistake of all), and we now live
in it probably for the rest of our lives and we hate it
with a passion (the closeness to neighbors and the HOA).
Well, once I was well enough (in
remission of undetermined length), I began to think
about radio again. That was when I found out I was in
an HOA that was totally under the control of the
developer, not the builder which is always the case. I
refused to accept the house without a copy of the HOA
CCRs. Once in hand, I read it all very carefully and
with consultation of an attorney. At this time about
one third of the 166 houses had been constructed. The
president of the HOA was the developer who was under no
requirement to hand control to the residents until all
homes were constructed. LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT
DEVELOPERS WRITE THE CCR’S MOSTLY FOR THEMSELVES WITH
LITTLE CONSIDERATION OF THE EVENTUAL PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN
AND UNDER IT. CCRs are a means to insure his
investment. The on site vice president was his daughter
and husband with all board members being other
relatives. WORSE THOUGH, is the CCRs are not well
thought out and basically are copies obtained off the
internet or from other sources. To this day, the
developer is the only party who can effectively modify
the CCRs none of which have ever been successfully
changed for other reasons having to do with disinterest
of the home owners. Once the development was finished,
the CCRs make all the owners responsible for the upkeep
of the common property which in ours consists of 6 acres
to be mowed regularly and a pool.
Fortunately, the CCRs contained just one provision
concerning antenna’s by limiting the height of same to
no more than 7 feet above the highest peak of one’s
roof. This is a very open CCR provision. It was clear
that I could put an antenna on my roof legally but sure
would be ugly. So, I petitioned the HOA (developer) for
permission to instead construct a tower no higher than
37 ft. He first denied me, then I appealed and he put
it up to a vote of the home owners. I met with them at
the pool and spent a couple hours trying to educate them
on why approving would benefit all of us. In the end, I
won my petition, but at the cost of being the FIRST
President of the HOA once turned over to the property
owners. I served in that position for 3-4 years and
basically stood up the HOA based on the CCRs of the
developer which proved to be more of a hindrance than a
help across the board. Those CCRs caused nothing but
animosity between neighbors ever since. Now not enough
owners will show up at annual meeting to meet the CCR
required number to conduct business. Our HOA is nothing
but a big big mess and the developer could care less as
he has his money and no responsibilities whatsoever.
Now here is the kicker: As 1st owner president, I
visited every home of the 166 at one time or the other
and found very few (the early ones who attended my tower
meeting) who even knew they were living in and HOA and
had no idea of the CCRs; until I had to enforce same
many of which I personally did not agree with. My first
act was to reproduce and deliver the CCRs to all home
owners. Our development had numerous builders none of
whom bothered to advise purchasers of that fact before
hand. Today, I have totally divorced myself from any
HOA meeting or business from now on. Every meeting was
just a nightmare of unhappy owners bitching at me for
things that I had no control over. To this day, no legal
CCR changes have been made for lack of owner
participation and interest. So, now a couple of
unelected people run it as they see fit with absolutely
no enforcement of the CCRs that matter.
Okay, technically it is possible that I could sell
out and go...........WHERE? All the communities in
eastern OKla county are HOA’s. Wife and I are in our
70’s and not in best of health. Worse yet, this house
we now have is ours with out mortgage and doubt we could
ever get out of it what we have invested. We do not
like it much, but feel we are stuck here until one or
the other of us dies, and the other goes to assisted
living somewhere.
No one in Ham Radio if in their right mind would
knowingly buy into and HOA except under circumstances
beyond their control. I support the ARRL CCR
initiative. HOAs are nothing more and nothing less than
a device to insure that the investment of developers
cannot be infringed, written mostly if not soley for
their benefit, and to relieve same of any continuing
responsibilities and costs afterwards. My HOA cannot by
CCR be dissolved without a 100% vote in favor of same.
That will not happen in a million years since we cannot
get 35 owners to even attend the annual meeting. If
ever one of these homes burns, many other will also, due
to the closeness of all to each other. City of MWC
could care less, they just look at the tax base
increase, so grant developers free rein to stuff them
together as tightly as possible.
From:
mailto:OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2014 2:58 PM
To: Yahoo Lincoln
Cc: Billie Walsh ;
oktraders at yahoogroups.com
; aresoklahoma at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [ARRL-OK] [OKtraders]
Fwd: Special Notice on HR4969 September 2014
Well said Reid......
Sent from my iPhone
Keep thy airspeed, lest the ground shall rise
up and smite thy machine.
On Sep 4, 2014, at 2:43 PM, "Yahoo Lincoln lincoln555 at yahoo.com
[OKtraders]" <OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
OK. I’ll be the jerk.
While I automatically and respectfully
stipulate that Mac and Tom are far more
knowledgable about matters related to amateur
radio, radio operating procedures, and radio
technology in general, I must take exception
to the assertion that this bill should not be
supported because it merely allows the
government to "abrogate agreements" and thus
“makes perfect sense” that it constitutes the
“theft of somebody else’s property and
rights.”
HOGWASH.
I live in an HOA. We have a covenant
restricting such external antennae and related
construction. I knew this going in to the
purchase of the home and property. Therefore,
I erected an attic antenna. In May, I had to
replace my roof, and experienced the same
“faraday cage” effect on HF bands. I have
never intended to breach the rules by erecting
a tower and beam or anything like that. But,
It WOULD be possible for me to erect a dipole
of reasonable length to operate on the most
populated bands and be virtually out-of-sight,
if I were ALLOWED.
Here is where I take umbrage at not backing
this bill because of government intervention:
this bill is NEEDED BECAUSE of GOVERNMENT
INTERVENTION.
I DO agree with the assertion of a
'tyrannical government’ in certain situations.
BUT this is the gov’s chance to actually do
something RIGHT for a change. This is not a
bill about "abrogating contracts," this is a
bill about FREEDOM. Our founders expressed
the vision of life, liberty, and the pursuit
of happiness. Ham radio is my PURSUIT OF
HAPPINESS. I must have the LIBERTY to do so,
and thus need REASONABLE accommodation (as the
bill explicitly states). And (who knows?) it
could lead to the safeguard or protection of
LIFE; the life of my neighbors whom I wish to
serve through this hobby. (i.e. In storm
spotting, I have seen more funnel clouds from
my back yard than I EVER did whilst mobile!)
So people established “pretty”
neighborhoods where wannabe trophy wives
wouldn’t have to endure the supposed eyesore
of a length of wire. These are the same
pantywaist crybabies who will undoubtedly be
asking for OUR help after a calamity because
their phones and TVs don’t work. Given the
exemplary record of ham radio to serve the
community, WE will be the ones to effectively
serve them. The onus will be on we - the ham
radio operators - to prove to them that, with
reasonable accommodation, are just as
important to the neighborhood as perhaps the
tech hogs with two ugly sat dishes bolted on
the FRONT of their homes.
It cuts both ways: if you don’t want to
live in a neighborhood with ham antennas,
DON’T MOVE THERE. In the mean time, we hams
will be providing critical services to
first-responders, emergency operations
officials, and even media to see these same
neighbors through whatever calamities we face.
It’s called “The Oklahoma Standard.” Back this
bill, and allow ourselves to do more of the
same.
Reid Mullins
N5QAR
p.s. - and if we happen to get a QSO from
Japan via EME between disasters… well that’s
just gravy. As my Dad used to say, “at least
we’re not robbin’ 7-11s."
On Sep 4, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Billie Walsh
bilwalsh at swbell.net
[OKtraders] <OKtraders-noreply at yahoogroups.com>
wrote:
On
09/04/2014 10:56 AM, Tom k8jrm at arrl.net [OKtraders]
wrote:
Hi all,
Mac, K2GKK, as usual, makes
perfect sense! Our friends and
neighbors have rights, too! A
little common sense on the part
of the Amateur Radio community
seems to be in order. We, as a
group, have been "over-sold " on
the need to have a tower with a
large beam to enjoy our hobby.
In fact, a simple dipole or
vertical in the backyard is
enough for most operating we do.
If we want a big antenna farm,
we should do as K2GKK suggests
move to the where we can legally
have one! If we don't want to
or can't move, a remote base
operation might be in order!
Remember guys, Ham Radio is a
hobby! Not a vocation! Suggest
re-reading the Amateur's Code
that appears in the front of all
ARRL Handbook.
73, Tom, K8JRM in OKC
Licensed since 1958
Twenty odd years ago when I made the
deal on my present home the first
thing I asked was what restrictions
there were. The only one was no pigs
so I figured I could live with that.
I didn't care what the price was
until I knew what the restrictions
were.
--
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
_ _... ..._ _
_._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._
--
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
_ _... ..._ _
_._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._
__._,_.___
Posted by: Billie Walsh <bilwalsh at swbell.net>
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