[Ares-races] Re: ARES-RACES Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3
Zach Lassiter
sapiens.unus at gmail.com
Fri Jun 24 16:53:42 EDT 2005
Here to be even considered for RACES in the appliction process you
MUST sign a release. RACES in our county is considered "Outside
Contractors"
On 6/24/05, ares-races-request at mailman.qth.net
<ares-races-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> Send ARES-RACES mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. ARES and leadership liability (Lloyd Colston)
> 2. Re: ARES and leadership liability (W6YN Don Milbury)
> 3. Re: ARES and leadership liability (Steven Blary)
> 4. Re: Liability (Steve Uhrig)
> 5. Re: ARES and leadership liability (W6YN Don Milbury)
> 6. RE: Re: Liability (Grant Hopper)
> 7. Re: Re: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
> (jerryreimer at charter.net)
> 8. FW: ARES/RACES Liability & Injuries Issues (Harvey Klein)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0500
> From: Lloyd Colston <kc5fm at ureach.com>
> Subject: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
> To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <42BBF59E.2090900 at ureach.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >
> >
> >Has anyone investigated the liabilities of being a member of ARES leadership?
> >
> Yes.
>
> Our solution is to have the ARES member also register in the local RACES
> program. Thus, the member is covered by the County Workmans'
> Compensation insurance.
>
> >Does the ARRL provide any coverage?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> No, the League does not.
>
> Let me know how more I can help.
>
> --
>
>
> Lloyd Colston Mayes County Emergency Management
> Pryor, OK USA http://www.mayescem.us
>
> "The President can make you a general, but only communications
> can make you a commander." General Curtis LeMay
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:55:09 -0700
> From: W6YN Don Milbury <w6yn at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
> To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20050624.095509.3684.11.w6yn at juno.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> That makes no sense at all.
>
> Workmans' Compensation insurance only covers treatment should the worker
> be injured.
>
> How does that cover liability? I don't think you have a solution at all.
>
> 73, Don
>
>
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0500 Lloyd Colston <kc5fm at ureach.com>
> writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >Has anyone investigated the liabilities of being a member of ARES
> > leadership?
> > >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Our solution is to have the ARES member also register in the local
> > RACES
> > program. Thus, the member is covered by the County Workmans'
> > Compensation insurance.
> >
> > >Does the ARRL provide any coverage?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > No, the League does not.
> >
> > Let me know how more I can help.
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Lloyd Colston Mayes County Emergency Management
> > Pryor, OK USA http://www.mayescem.us
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:18:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Steven Blary <sblary at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
> To: W6YN Don Milbury <w6yn at juno.com>, ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20050624171857.3367.qmail at web54509.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> what liability are you attempting to protect yourself from?
>
> Workman's comp would protect the organization from liabity concerning
> volunteers being injured while serving. Are you afraid that the
> radio waves may cause some one cancer <G>!
>
> Seriously, we have our volunteers sign a release of liability which
> doesn't prevent lawsuits however it does give us proof that the
> volunteer knew what they were getting into and that they were
> forwarned that they are responsible for there own safety.
>
> I am currently shopping for general liability insurance as well as
> Directors and Officer's insurance.
>
> I'll post what I find out but it may take a week or two ...
>
> 73
> Steve, N1XC
>
> --- W6YN Don Milbury <w6yn at juno.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > That makes no sense at all.
> >
> > Workmans' Compensation insurance only covers treatment should the
> > worker
> > be injured.
> >
> > How does that cover liability? I don't think you have a solution
> > at all.
> >
> > 73, Don
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0500 Lloyd Colston <kc5fm at ureach.com>
> > writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Has anyone investigated the liabilities of being a member of
> > ARES
> > > leadership?
> > > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > Our solution is to have the ARES member also register in the
> > local
> > > RACES
> > > program. Thus, the member is covered by the County Workmans'
> > > Compensation insurance.
> > >
> > > >Does the ARRL provide any coverage?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > No, the League does not.
> > >
> > > Let me know how more I can help.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Lloyd Colston Mayes County Emergency Management
> > > Pryor, OK USA http://www.mayescem.us
> > "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
> > got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell)
> > but also true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets
> > and help financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARES-RACES mailing list
> > ARES-RACES at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ares-races
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:34:32 -0400
> From: "Steve Uhrig" <Steve at swssec.com>
> Subject: [Ares-races] Re: Liability
> To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <42BC0BE8.17205.3DAFF4A at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> RACES worker's coverage.
>
> Below snipped from a message to me from our county emergency management
> director regarding this exact issue:
>
> =============
>
> > I give presentations on this topic so I am quite comfortable with the
> > information. I can give one to your folks if interested.
>
> > Volunteers who are designated by the local authorities who are
> > activated to serve in any capacity as clearly defined somewhere, are
> > covered under a State of Md blanket policy whether or not on State
> > property. This includes to and from work site. Of course they are not
> > covered if they are in any way negligent. The key is to maintain a
> > roster of people- and have a position description(s). This covers YOU
> > in the event there is any discrepancy as to what the role(s) actually
> > are. You can contact the Non Profits Risk management & Insurance
> > Institute Washington, DC 202-462-8190 for a brochure on volunteers
> > liability and insurance questions. You can ask specifically for the
> > state liability laws for volunteers brochure. There are no federal
> > laws, but State laws do apply.
>
> > Also, the county has same coverage. You can call XXXX YYYY for a copy
> > of the county govt "policies" regarding this. Hope this helps.
>
> ==============
>
> Remember this is Maryland, in a rural county who works closely with RACES
> and supports us more than adequately.
>
> Both me and my people are satisfied with the above.
>
> Regards ... Steve WA3SWS
> RACES Officer
> ARES AEC
> Harford County, Maryland
>
>
> *******************************************************************
> Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA)
> Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip
> mailto:Steve at swssec.com website http://www.swssec.com
> tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190
> "In God we trust, all others we monitor"
> *******************************************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:53:40 -0700
> From: W6YN Don Milbury <w6yn at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
> To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20050624.105342.3684.12.w6yn at juno.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'm exposing the misconception that "Workmans' Compensation Insurance"
> protects the volunteer from liability as a result of his/her actions.
>
> It does not.
>
> As a volunteer, I have no interest in protecting " the organization" from
> liability. I am concerned with my protection from liability as (again) a
> volunteer.
>
> All too often volunteers are told that they are "insured" if they
> register. The inference is that they are covered for liability, which of
> course nothing could be further from the truth.
>
> 73, Don
>
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Steven Blary <sblary at yahoo.com>
> writes:
> > what liability are you attempting to protect yourself from?
> >
> > Workman's comp would protect the organization from liabity
> > concerning
> > volunteers being injured while serving. Are you afraid that the
> > radio waves may cause some one cancer <G>!
> >
> > Seriously, we have our volunteers sign a release of liability which
> > doesn't prevent lawsuits however it does give us proof that the
> > volunteer knew what they were getting into and that they were
> > forwarned that they are responsible for there own safety.
> >
> > I am currently shopping for general liability insurance as well as
> > Directors and Officer's insurance.
> >
> > I'll post what I find out but it may take a week or two ...
> >
> > 73
> > Steve, N1XC
> >
> > --- W6YN Don Milbury <w6yn at juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That makes no sense at all.
> > >
> > > Workmans' Compensation insurance only covers treatment should the
> > > worker
> > > be injured.
> > >
> > > How does that cover liability? I don't think you have a solution
> > > at all.
> > >
> > > 73, Don
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0500 Lloyd Colston
> > <kc5fm at ureach.com>
> > > writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Has anyone investigated the liabilities of being a member of
> > > ARES
> > > > leadership?
> > > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > > >
> > > > Our solution is to have the ARES member also register in the
> > > local
> > > > RACES
> > > > program. Thus, the member is covered by the County Workmans'
> > > > Compensation insurance.
> > > >
> > > > >Does the ARRL provide any coverage?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > No, the League does not.
> > > >
> > > > Let me know how more I can help.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lloyd Colston Mayes County Emergency Management
> > > > Pryor, OK USA http://www.mayescem.us
> > > "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
> > > got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell)
> > > but also true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets
> > > and help financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ARES-RACES mailing list
> > > ARES-RACES at mailman.qth.net
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ares-races
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:08:11 -0700
> From: "Grant Hopper" <ghopper at eskimo.com>
> Subject: RE: [Ares-races] Re: Liability
> To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <005201c578e7$af6cd190$6601a8c0 at delbert>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I was waiting for someone out east to respond before I put my two cents
> worth in.
>
> As a lawyer, and a just "retired" (after almost ten years) volunteer
> training officer for our county emergency management agency (covering at one
> time more than 400 volunteers) I have been asked about liability, injuries,
> lost equipment, etc. a lot.
>
> The answer (and protection) comes in layers. We have a statute that
> protects volunteers that are registered in the state from liability unless
> they are grossly negligent. There is also a "common law" principal against
> volunteers being liable for helping but, by undertaking the "act" they
> assume a certain responsibility for being competent. This relates to
> causing harm to others. Insurance may also have a place here.
>
> Loss of equipment is also covered by state law. Local administrator of the
> "fund" has to approve the payment for the loss.
>
> Injuries to volunteers are 1st covered under the individuals own insurance
> coverage, and then if none, local govt/served agency "insurance", and lastly
> a state pool (usually something like workers comp). I have to add that I
> have seen different exceptions to how this has worked.
>
> Workers comp insurance (if it even applies in a given situation- and it may
> not) only provides medical and lost wages coverage thus the name "workers
> compensation". No coverage for liability at all.
>
> Key to all this is you gotta be a registered, card carrying, emergency
> worker. Without it, you are very much on your own. That is why private
> organizations have to have insurance. It's also why insurance for some non
> and not-for-profits is so darn expensive. If you have volunteers out there
> that are poorly trained and/or unsupervised and causing harm that results in
> potential claims, the insurance market will make you pay.
>
> I'm only licensed to practice law in Washington and have only looked at
> Washington law but, I would expect most states have a similar setup for
> volunteers.
>
> Grant, KB7WSD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ares-races-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:ares-races-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Steve Uhrig
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 10:35 AM
> To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Ares-races] Re: Liability
>
>
> RACES worker's coverage.
>
> Below snipped from a message to me from our county emergency management
> director regarding this exact issue:
>
> =============
>
> > I give presentations on this topic so I am quite comfortable with the
> > information. I can give one to your folks if interested.
>
> > Volunteers who are designated by the local authorities who are
> > activated to serve in any capacity as clearly defined somewhere, are
> > covered under a State of Md blanket policy whether or not on State
> > property. This includes to and from work site. Of course they are not
> > covered if they are in any way negligent. The key is to maintain a
> > roster of people- and have a position description(s). This covers YOU
> > in the event there is any discrepancy as to what the role(s) actually
> > are. You can contact the Non Profits Risk management & Insurance
> > Institute Washington, DC 202-462-8190 for a brochure on volunteers
> > liability and insurance questions. You can ask specifically for the
> > state liability laws for volunteers brochure. There are no federal
> > laws, but State laws do apply.
>
> > Also, the county has same coverage. You can call XXXX YYYY for a copy
> > of the county govt "policies" regarding this. Hope this helps.
>
> ==============
>
> Remember this is Maryland, in a rural county who works closely with RACES
> and supports us more than adequately.
>
> Both me and my people are satisfied with the above.
>
> Regards ... Steve WA3SWS
> RACES Officer
> ARES AEC
> Harford County, Maryland
>
>
> *******************************************************************
> Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA)
> Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip
> mailto:Steve at swssec.com website http://www.swssec.com
> tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190
> "In God we trust, all others we monitor"
> *******************************************************************
>
> "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got...till
> it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but also true about
> QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and help financially. Please
> contribute TODAY !!
> _______________________________________________
> ARES-RACES mailing list
> ARES-RACES at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ares-races
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:00:46 +0000
> From: <jerryreimer at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
> To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <4403cd$142ic5m at mxip11a.cluster1.charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I am not an attorney, I do not play one on television, and I did not stay at a Holliday Inn last night. I did attend a training class this morning for supervisors on workers compensation insurance.
>
> Each employer (some exchange of wages for labor) has a statutory (legal) obligation to pay for the medical expenses of employees that are injured in the course of their employment. Worker's compensation insurance is just that, insurance. It is not usually mandated by state law, but buying insurance usually controls the costs and limits the employer's exposure. An employer may not be required to buy insurance, but they are still liable for payments under the state law.
>
> This is no-fault insurance, where there is rarely any requirement for the injured employee to prove that the employer was at fault. The only proof required is that the injury occurred, it occurred in the course of employement, and was not the result of intoxication.
>
> The insurance purpose is to pay for the medical bills and rehabilitation, and it might supplement the employee's income while they recover. If a permanent injury results, and it permanently limits an employee's ability to work, there may be some compensation for the loss.
>
> There are recent federal (Bill Clinton signed one), and many state laws, that limit the liability of organizations who coordinate volunteers. Most of these exclude injuries or damage that occurs as the result of driving an automobile.
>
> In most states, there is some attorney who might be willing to take a case that sues some volunteer coordinator for something that happened to another volunteer. We have one such suit now in my subdivision, perhaps going to court on Monday. You have to go through the process, hire your defense attorney, pay lots of money, and spend lots of time. That does not mean the court will find you liable for any damages.
>
> The purpose of legal insurance is to cover the attorney fees necessary to defend yourself when some volunteer takes exception to the volunteer leadership and thinks they have a valid claim. The insurance won't prevent the actions nor the process, it just controls the costs.
>
> Jerry
> KK5CA
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:16:11 -0400
> From: "Harvey Klein" <hklein at gslabs.com>
> Subject: [Ares-races] FW: ARES/RACES Liability & Injuries Issues
> To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <20050624192451.CD690859C26 at mailman.qth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> From: Harvey Klein [mailto:hklein at gslabs.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:13 PM
> To: 'ares-races at mailman.qth.net'
> Subject: ARES/RACES Liability & Injuries Issues
>
>
> You have to be very careful when discussing liability and insurance matters.
> One of the reasons that the ARRL "sponsors" ARES and does not "own" ARES is
> specifically because it does not want to expose the national organization to
> liability from the actions of ARES members and does not want to be
> responsible for injuries sustained by ARES members in the course of their
> volunteer activities.
>
> RACES is a little different, in that RACES members register as members of a
> governmental agency. In New Jersey it would be a local, county or state
> Office of Emergency Management. Other states' agencies have similar names
> including Civil Defense. As such, when participating in emergency
> management activities there is some immunity from liability for your actions
> and some coverage for injuries sustained (like workman's comp) given by
> state law.
>
> However these protections ONLY ensue when participating in emergency
> management related activities. You would not be covered for ARES activities
> simply because you are a member of RACES also. It is imperative that RACES
> & other emergency management activities are activated or approved by the
> responsible government official.
>
> Of course as already stated, no immunity would be available for negligent
> acts.
>
> Each state has its owns laws and they can vary.
>
> It is for these reasons that some ARES units incorporate and acquire their
> own insurance. This is to provide some protection to the leadership and
> members of the incorporated organization.
>
> I will be glad to help answer any questions to the best of my ability but I
> am not a lawyer and these matters can involve legal issues. You should
> contact a local lawyer for the best information in your state.
>
> 73
> Harvey Klein, WS2Q
>
> Radio Officer
> Morris County Office of Emergency Management Work Tel: 908-688-8900 Home
> Tel: 973-538-1768 Cell Phone: 732-921-2608
> Email: ws2q at arrl.net
> Emergency email: hklein at interpage.net
>
> Municipal Coordinator
> Morris Township Office of Emergency Management
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ares-races-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:ares-races-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of W6YN Don Milbury
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:54 PM
> To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Ares-races] ARES and leadership liability
>
> I'm exposing the misconception that "Workmans' Compensation Insurance"
> protects the volunteer from liability as a result of his/her actions.
>
> It does not.
>
> As a volunteer, I have no interest in protecting " the organization" from
> liability. I am concerned with my protection from liability as (again) a
> volunteer.
>
> All too often volunteers are told that they are "insured" if they register.
> The inference is that they are covered for liability, which of course
> nothing could be further from the truth.
>
> 73, Don
>
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Steven Blary <sblary at yahoo.com>
> writes:
> > what liability are you attempting to protect yourself from?
> >
> > Workman's comp would protect the organization from liabity concerning
> > volunteers being injured while serving. Are you afraid that the radio
> > waves may cause some one cancer <G>!
> >
> > Seriously, we have our volunteers sign a release of liability which
> > doesn't prevent lawsuits however it does give us proof that the
> > volunteer knew what they were getting into and that they were
> > forwarned that they are responsible for there own safety.
> >
> > I am currently shopping for general liability insurance as well as
> > Directors and Officer's insurance.
> >
> > I'll post what I find out but it may take a week or two ...
> >
> > 73
> > Steve, N1XC
> >
> > --- W6YN Don Milbury <w6yn at juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That makes no sense at all.
> > >
> > > Workmans' Compensation insurance only covers treatment should the
> > > worker be injured.
> > >
> > > How does that cover liability? I don't think you have a solution at
> > > all.
> > >
> > > 73, Don
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0500 Lloyd Colston
> > <kc5fm at ureach.com>
> > > writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Has anyone investigated the liabilities of being a member of
> > > ARES
> > > > leadership?
> > > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > > >
> > > > Our solution is to have the ARES member also register in the
> > > local
> > > > RACES
> > > > program. Thus, the member is covered by the County Workmans'
> > > > Compensation insurance.
> > > >
> > > > >Does the ARRL provide any coverage?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > No, the League does not.
> > > >
> > > > Let me know how more I can help.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lloyd Colston Mayes County Emergency Management
> > > > Pryor, OK USA http://www.mayescem.us
> > > "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
> > > got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but
> > > also true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and
> > > help financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ARES-RACES mailing list
> > > ARES-RACES at mailman.qth.net
> > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ares-races
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got...till
> it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but also true about
> QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and help financially. Please
> contribute TODAY !!
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> End of ARES-RACES Digest, Vol 13, Issue 3
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