[ARC5] AB5S Kung Flu Update, 13 June - source?

Richard Knoppow 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
Sun Jun 14 16:45:26 EDT 2020 

    I wonder if anyone has ever done a statistical study of the 
disease rate among symphony musicians. Maybe its like hearing 
tests among musicians and recording engineers, no one wants to 
know. Many years ago I suggested doing a hearing survey at an 
Audio Engineering Society convention, you would have thought I 
had suggested eating babies.  Too challenging to the ability to 
make a living. I had my first audiogram when I applied for a job 
at the telephone company years ago. It was perfect. Oh, golly.

On 6/14/2020 1:36 PM, Michael Hanz wrote:
> And as a member of a community symphony orchestra, what he said 
> - in spades!  Those pesky woodwinds and brass in the back 
> rows...yow! :-)
>
> I've been able to do some chamber work with 2-3 other string 
> players outside in masks on a nice day, but it's hard to blow a 
> trumpet through a mask...
>
> - Mike
>
> On 6/14/2020 4:19 PM, Scott Robinson wrote:
>> ...and this illustrates why choral singing is unfortunately 
>> one of the best ways to make others sick. This is a drag for 
>> me, a choral singer the last 63 years.
>>
>> Stay healthy,
>>
>> Scott Robinson
>>
>>> On 6/14/2020 11:54 AM, Michael Hanz wrote:
>>>> That pretty much aligns with my view, Scott, with the 
>>>> addition of information from an interesting study about 
>>>> aerosols produced by simply "normal" talking, reported at 
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/health/coronavirus-infections.html 
>>>> (The National Academy of Sciences detailed report is at 
>>>> https://www.pnas.org/content/117/22/11875 ).
>>>>
>>>> The gist of the article was:
>>>> "To see how many droplets are produced during normal 
>>>> conversation, researchers at the National Institute of 
>>>> Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases and the 
>>>> University of Pennsylvania, who study the kinetics of 
>>>> biological molecules inside the human body, asked volunteers 
>>>> to repeat the words “stay healthy” several times. While the 
>>>> participants spoke into the open end of a cardboard box, the 
>>>> researchers illuminated its inside with green lasers, and 
>>>> tracked bursts of droplets produced by the speaker.
>>>>
>>>> The laser scans showed that about 2,600 small droplets were 
>>>> produced _per second_ while talking. When researchers 
>>>> projected the amount and size of droplets produced at 
>>>> different volumes based on previous studies, they found that 
>>>> speaking louder could generate larger droplets, as well as 
>>>> greater quantities of them.
>>>>
>>>> Although the scientists did not record speech droplets 
>>>> produced by people who were sick, previous studies have 
>>>> calculated exactly how much coronavirus genetic material can 
>>>> be found in oral fluids in the average patient.  Based on 
>>>> this knowledge, the researchers estimated that a single 
>>>> minute of loud speaking could generate at least 1,000 
>>>> virus-containing droplets."
>>>>
>>>> Here's a picture of the test setup:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That makes it even more than a courtesy to wear a mask, 
>>>> especially since most coronavirus spreaders aren't even 
>>>> aware when they are in the early stages of their infection. 
>>>> The cloth masks are indeed not perfect, but they are only 
>>>> intended to reduce the frequency of the much larger 
>>>> droplets, not the much smaller virus which is attached to them.
>>>>
>>>> - Mike  KC4TOS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/14/2020 2:00 PM, Scott Johnson wrote:
>>>>> I consider the primary reason for masks, or bandanas, or 
>>>>> whatever, not to
>>>>> protect yourself, but to protect other from you.  It is a 
>>>>> courtesy, if you
>>>>> sneeze, cough, or slobber when you talk, it effectively 
>>>>> prevents the aerosol
>>>>> from going further than the fabric.  Not wearing anything 
>>>>> in proximity to
>>>>> the public identifies one as  careless and reckless.  If 
>>>>> you are in a high
>>>>> risk group, and truly worried about your own safety, then 
>>>>> you shouldn't be
>>>>> exposing yourself needlessly.  I have heard so many 
>>>>> opinions, some that are
>>>>> diametrically opposed, and all from supposed experts. Don't 
>>>>> care to hear
>>>>> any more. Common sense coupled with common decency should 
>>>>> prevail.  BTW, one
>>>>> of my engineers did a CFD model in Solidworks of a sneeze 
>>>>> in a room with
>>>>> closed loop HVAC.  It propogates and dissipates pretty much 
>>>>> like a fart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott V. Johnson W7SVJ
>>>>> 5111 E. Sharon Dr.
>>>>> Scottsdale, AZ 85254-3636
>>>>> H (602) 953-5779
>>>>> C (480) 550-2358
>>>>> scottjohnson1 at cox.net
>>>>> scott.johnson at ieee.org
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>> <arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net>  On Behalf
>>>>> Of Hubert Miller
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:21 PM
>>>>> To:arc5 at mailman.qth.net
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARC5] AB5S Kung Flu Update, 13 June - source?
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally good advice, but I question the non-cough 
>>>>> non-sneeze 26 foot
>>>>> business, no matter what your doctor said.
>>>>> I have read several articles in the New York Times 
>>>>> precisely on this
>>>>> question, and those articles are well informed, very well 
>>>>> informed,
>>>>> frequently updated. Ask your doctor his source for his 
>>>>> information. I recall
>>>>> now they also had an article comparing actual effectiveness 
>>>>> of different
>>>>> kinds of masks, both homemade and commercial, and gave 
>>>>> actual numbers
>>>>> compared to N95, and what thickness required even with 
>>>>> homemade.
>>>>> Also, masks are dry material, so what is your informed 
>>>>> reckoning of how long
>>>>> virus lives on them ?
>>>>> As for health professionals dying despite masks, well, you 
>>>>> would have to
>>>>> know the extent of their exposure and their full suiting 
>>>>> equipment to assign
>>>>> this to mask inefficiency.
>>>>> Don't forget UV exposure either, to kill virus. These 
>>>>> parameters apply
>>>>> outside also.
>>>>> I found Elderberry anything to be pretty much sold out 
>>>>> locally last time I
>>>>> shopped, but I'll take another look in the next days.
>>>>> -Hue Miller
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Michael Hanz - KC4TOS
>>>>
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>

-- 
Richard Knoppow
1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com
WB6KBL

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